- This topic has 3 voices and 7 replies.
-
Posts
-
Greetings everyone, My name is Finra and I am a new member to the forums; nice to meet you all.I've got a few questions specifically for women on CBL and in particular would like to ask for advice and consultation on whether my kind/type of training style/method and intended food routine are good. I must apologize in advance if this is far too long.. :-My information:- Chinese Kiwi in NZ- 157 cm tall- Goal is to gain lean muscles for strength and increase muscle stamina, lose fat (SA) and of course be healthy but still be able to eat 'junk' once in a while- Did Preparation Phase of CBL for 11 days - Before prep: weight is 55kg | after weight is 52 kg- Did 2 to 3 sessions of HIIT during prep- Practices Wing Chun and Taekwondo Kicks (WC is close quarter combat, speed, accuracy & stamina more important and essential than strength)- Moderate amount of body weight resistance training (squats, lunges, legs lifts, push ups, chin ups etc) no weights- Train Wing Chun 3 times a week - low intensity most of the time - On the other days (except off days) I do body weight resistance training, sometimes sets of kicks and hand drills with kale sticks and resistance bands; going to start adding in HIIT - Had my first night of load last night with Apple Risotto, a slice of swiss roll cake and a banana~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Before I went on CBL prep phase I was on a low carb diet. I had no useable carbs for a while. After a week or 2 I started to feel really sleepy in the morning without eating any useable carbs at all so I started to eat a heavy breakfast, and then pyramid down. My routine was around like this:- Morning - brown rice with vege and meat or oats protein blueberry shake- Lunch - lean meat, veges- snack - nuts, wholegrain stuff- dinner - meat and vegeall low in fat. "Clean eat"Result of that diet was I was completely controlled by my hunger; had to eat every two hours or I would go into starvation mode and feel sick. However, I've discovered CBL and wanted to try it. During the Prep Phase, I've discovered that I had become more energized mentally, more awake, only had 3 meals a day instead of 6 or 8 but my muscles are always weak and sore from last training which would be normal due to ketosis. I can do just a set and my legs would collapse.Yesterday was my first load. Before the load I did some kicking, squats, lunges, static holds, dynamic swings; and now my lower half of my body is sore. The night before that I was working on my arms so essentially my whole body at the moment is completely 'damaged'. Q. I have read on an online journal about this female recommending to do the prep phase twice, to be able to find out how long the carbs need to take to completely deplete. I think its important to know how long glycogen can store in your body and how long it would take to burn them out, but is it really necessary for me to do the phase again? Q. I think this would be safer just to make sure I do not overload (since women can't overload, and I don't even lift) however before I even started CBL I've realized my strength of my muscles are very weak. They get tired before I'm even out of breath. I can't lift my leg up and hold it in place for long without being real sore and tired. Does that mean I wasn't getting enough carbs to begin with?Q. According to the results during the Prep phase, I went from 55kg to 52kg so that is 121.2 lbs to 114.64 lbs. If I was to follow the Delta Chart, I have lost 6.56 lbs and my base carbs intake is 591g a day; is that correct? I'm a bit skeptical at the number because I think it might be a bit too much for a small girl like me.... Answer to that is probably because that is aimed for males not females, so what would the female intake be?Q. At the moment because I'm not quite sure where to steer towards, I am going to go low carbs for another week and note down what my body is telling me. After that, I think a piece of something sweet i.e. 1 serving of ice cream or a slice of cake at night after a low carb dinner wouldn't be any harm?At the moment my routine is this:- Morning - cup of reduced sweetness coffee or A.M Shake if muscles are sore- Supplements - Omega 3 Fish Oil tablet & Multi vitamin- lunch - fats, meat and vege- snack - almonds- dinner - fats, meat and vege~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Hope I've provided enough information, looking forward to your replies!Fin
1) Do you have a link or copy of said article? The Prep Phase is necessary at first to prime your body for the switch to being Ketogenic, using Ketosis as fuel. IE body fat and fat intake. You must be thinking of Carb Nite Solution, similar to CBL but a week without carbs and one 6-8 refeed at night. Now women doing CBL will need to be a bit more conscience of what is eaten and how much. Women tend to hold onto carbs/glycogen a lot more than men. I do mean a lot more. If able, check out the Wedding podcast Kiefer did with Mrs Marci Curtis.2) Overload? Spilling over in carbs? Actually its the opposite for women. It means you are not properly recovering, and you should take some steps to recoop. Carbs can help, BUT you also need to be aware of your ULC meal intake.3) Ah you read and understood the charts, that's awesome. Most ignore it. Anyways, that number is based on how much your body literally lost and how much it can possibly store. For a female, I would cut it in half and go from there. Maybe close to 300g all depending on the level of activity, depletion rate, and training.4) When do you normally train? AM or PM? PM, backload PWO. You could do a small carb dinner with a small dessert. Like you mentioned with a serving, basically portion control. If you get enough fuel from the good dietary fats. You will be just fine. If hungry, either a) eat a ULC meal after the carbs or b) eat another carb serving.Your meals look ideal Fin, my next question, your macros what are you shooting for?
Morning Big Tex,Thank you very much for your reply 🙂1) Here is the link. http://strongfigure.com/2013/02/confessions-of-a-carb-loader-im-back/I've read a load of articles online... especially trying to find ones written by women who has done CBL. They all seem to have mixed CNS together with CBL just to find that balance for women, and in the book (CBL v.1) Kiefer mentioned not to backload every single day for women but only on training days, and in much less proportion in comparison to a male; so I wrote out my weekly plan and from there I figured when I should BL and when I should hold it off, depending on what I do on the days I train. If I was to follow that article's suggestion I would be able to find out (since I'm conscious) how many days does it take my body to deplete judging for the amount of intake I took on my first BL day.2) Overload, I mean to eat too much carbs than I should. This has been a 'problem' while actually; I'm still trying to figure out why my muscles aren't recovering with more solid strength but start to get tired quite quickly. I already take a lot of protein until the stage of being constipated sometimes (sorry lol) so I'm sure its not because of protein.. perhaps I'm not having enough carbs? 3) Hehe, Kiefer had written instructions in the book on how to use it so I just followed it 🙂 since I don't cook for myself all the time, and I'm not always eating at home, its very hard to know how many grams of whatever I am consuming... but I do make some general research such as a cup (1 serving) of green tea soba noodles would contain how many grams of carbs, and so If I was to eat double the amount then I'd have a rough idea of how much carbs my meal contain - but not really specific. Honestly, sometimes I do find that very annoying and tedious 🙁 so my method had always been the trial and error method - see how I perform and see how I look after eating it.4) I used to train in the morning before work - but now that I don't work and since I've started the CBL scheme I've opted to training from 3pm onwards; doing Wing Chun is also 3pm onwards so to keep my whole workout time consistent I've changed my training times after 3 pm. If its a body resistance training session (sets and reps type) then I would definitely take a protein shake post workout. However if its Wing Chun (although it IS a mix of cardio and resistance training, but not really intense..) I don't tend to drink it because I feel that I haven't worked hard enough to earn that shake... do you get what I mean? Not that I don't fight hard... I go crazy actually, but I barely huff and puff... I think having a small carb dinner (with useable carbs) after any kind of workout (that includes WC with my bodyweight resistance training) would be quite useful to recover my muscles (they are still sore from like last week at the moment); I'm just freaked out I'll overload! I'm also not sure whether if I should do this now or wait for another week after depleting my body again...Thanks Tex, I'm glad my meals look alright.I haven't done any marcos... like I mentioned previously I find it completely stupid if I was going strict to the digits. I usually go by a handful of this and a handful of that. Undereating is better than overeating is what I've always told myself... if not enough I know to add a bit more next time if my body tells me so, but cutting back is a bit traumatic for me. In the end I'm going for the SA protocol (get muscle, lose fat, be strong [without losing femininity]) so I am aware to stay really conscious on what I eat and how I feel.
1) Thank you for the link. I will check it out. If you plan to backload a lot I would limit the carb amount. To around 1g/lbs to get a tolerance. Maybe boost it up once you feel it is appropriate.2) All you need for protein is .8-1g/lbs. Anything more than 1.3g is wasted. You should also be concern with getting enough fats room 3) N=1 approach is the most ideal scenario to do. Keep tracking and keep aware of how progress is forming.4) I do yes. I would still have the PWO shake at least, even sans carbs. Whey, creatine, and leucine. Now CBL is there for resistance training. With martial arts and body weight might not be effective to backload daily. Maybe a cross between CNS and CBL will be better for you.
I've read a load of articles online... especially trying to find ones written by women who has done CBL. They all seem to have mixed CNS together with CBL just to find that balance for women, and in the book (CBL v.1) Kiefer mentioned not to backload every single day for women but only on training days, and in much less proportion in comparison to a male; so I wrote out my weekly plan and from there I figured when I should BL and when I should hold it off, depending on what I do on the days I train. If I was to follow that article's suggestion I would be able to find out (since I'm conscious) how many days does it take my body to deplete judging for the amount of intake I took on my first BL day.2) Overload, I mean to eat too much carbs than I should. This has been a 'problem' while actually; I'm still trying to figure out why my muscles aren't recovering with more solid strength but start to get tired quite quickly. I already take a lot of protein until the stage of being constipated sometimes (sorry lol) so I'm sure its not because of protein.. perhaps I'm not having enough carbs? I recently adjusted my fat/protein intake and have had a really hard time with muscle soreness/recovery. So not sure if this means I have depleted faster or if I am protein deficient. I used a keto calculator which put my protein at roughly .5 of my gw, and upped my fat significantly. Find it here: http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com Would be interested to follow your findings in this area3) Hehe, Kiefer had written instructions in the book on how to use it so I just followed it 🙂 since I don't cook for myself all the time, and I'm not always eating at home, its very hard to know how many grams of whatever I am consuming... but I do make some general research such as a cup (1 serving) of green tea soba noodles would contain how many grams of carbs, and so If I was to eat double the amount then I'd have a rough idea of how much carbs my meal contain - but not really specific. Honestly, sometimes I do find that very annoying and tedious 🙁 so my method had always been the trial and error method - see how I perform and see how I look after eating it.Have you tried logging on an app like Myfitnesspal.com or fat secret.com? That is a really easy way to see what you have taken in as far as fat/carb/protein goes.4) I used to train in the morning before work - but now that I don't work and since I've started the CBL scheme I've opted to training from 3pm onwards; doing Wing Chun is also 3pm onwards so to keep my whole workout time consistent I've changed my training times after 3 pm. If its a body resistance training session (sets and reps type) then I would definitely take a protein shake post workout. However if its Wing Chun (although it IS a mix of cardio and resistance training, but not really intense..) I don't tend to drink it because I feel that I haven't worked hard enough to earn that shake... do you get what I mean? Not that I don't fight hard... I go crazy actually, but I barely huff and puff... I think having a small carb dinner (with useable carbs) after any kind of workout (that includes WC with my bodyweight resistance training) would be quite useful to recover my muscles (they are still sore from like last week at the moment); I'm just freaked out I'll overload! I'm also not sure whether if I should do this now or wait for another week after depleting my body again...Thanks Tex, I'm glad my meals look alright.I haven't done any marcos... like I mentioned previously I find it completely stupid if I was going strict to the digits. I usually go by a handful of this and a handful of that. Undereating is better than overeating is what I've always told myself... if not enough I know to add a bit more next time if my body tells me so, but cutting back is a bit traumatic for me. In the end I'm going for the SA protocol (get muscle, lose fat, be strong [without losing femininity]) so I am aware to stay really conscious on what I eat and how I feel.I have been told more than once on this forum to eat MORE and that undereating will undo what I have been doing and cause my body to reserve calories.
I recently adjusted my fat/protein intake and have had a really hard time with muscle soreness/recovery. So not sure if this means I have depleted faster or if I am protein deficient. I used a keto calculator which put my protein at roughly .5 of my gw, and upped my fat significantly. Find it here: http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com Would be interested to follow your findings in this area
It really sucks when we don't know what exactly is happening inside our bodies and whether we are doing the right thing for it or not doesn't it? 🙁 If they don't repair fast/in time for the next time I train then it just delays my workouts.. and if I worked out while its still torn its going to do nothing good for it. I'm pretty sure I'm not protein deficient... I eat mostly protein for every meal I have. Don't know about fat though. I've got onto that calculator just then, quite interesting 🙂Here are my results:My BMR is 1239 kcalI chose moderate activity although I do a bit of something to get myself sweating 6-7 days a week unless I am sore (which hugely puts off the routine since its muscle recovery dependent) and that I don't lift at all.my TDEE is 1920 kcal (MFP says 1800)I apparently have 29% body fat (wow, really??)... I think that is wrong?? I don't know. If I was to look at this picture that I found on some website (MFP to be specific) I am right at 20% body fat...
Here's me today:
My core seems to be the thickest part, perhaps I should start doing weight for my arms?? My martial arts teacher is definitely against weight lifting though so its a bit of a worry xDOn the calculator it mentioned about having some fruit intake... but I thought fruits have a high G.I?? So isn't that left for when I backload, not what to eat daily? I find using other fitness apps that isn't working in correlation with kiefer's CBL plan wouldn't work well but works well with the typical carbs in the morning big meal then small meal; eat 8 times a day kind of protocol. It actually makes me get really confused in what I'm supposed to do with my body 🙁Have you tried logging on an app like Myfitnesspal.com or fat secret.com? That is a really easy way to see what you have taken in as far as fat/carb/protein goes.
I've tried using these kind of apps before... I can't seem to stick to it because I'm just not fond of posting what I did and what I ate in apps but just right it down in my diary about what I did. Other than that reason every app seem to differ so it makes me feel this whole thing is pointless. To me, being healthy and being fit and keep myself in shape is an enjoyment.. I don't want to turn it into like a job. It feels there's a lot of constraints and I find it quite upsetting overall 🙁I'm already conscious with what I do and what I eat already and I've always kept that discipline while annoying some others at the dinner table xD
I have been told more than once on this forum to eat MORE and that undereating will undo what I have been doing and cause my body to reserve calories.
PERHAPS I should eat more...... at the moment after doing the prep phase I barely need to eat like I used to since I'm no longer that hungry; but maybe increase my serving size? I'm really lost aye. I wish there was a pro that could just sit beside me and tell me what I need to do to do right! 🙁
1) Thank you for the link. I will check it out. If you plan to backload a lot I would limit the carb amount. To around 1g/lbs to get a tolerance. Maybe boost it up once you feel it is appropriate.2) All you need for protein is .8-1g/lbs. Anything more than 1.3g is wasted. You should also be concern with getting enough fats room 3) N=1 approach is the most ideal scenario to do. Keep tracking and keep aware of how progress is forming.4) I do yes. I would still have the PWO shake at least, even sans carbs. Whey, creatine, and leucine. Now CBL is there for resistance training. With martial arts and body weight might not be effective to backload daily. Maybe a cross between CNS and CBL will be better for you.
1) Nah I'm totally freaked out and feel super paranoid about doing a lot of backloading. I'm scared sh*tless about having my waistline going out of shape. It's the last thing I'd ever ever want! I intend to see how I react without a week of useable carbs (again) but then from previous experience during the prep phase my muscles were just weak and sore so that's probably going to be the result... am I even supposed to let all the glycogen deplete before I load the next set of carbs? I'm so confused aye. If I did another week like the author suggested on the website then that'll mean another week of crap quality workout since I can't do much with sore weak muscles.2) Not sure if I've got enough fat and protein overall... but I do include both fat and protein at every meal I eat. Right now I only eat 2 to 3 meals a day, which would be lunch and dinner plus a snack. Snack would always be some form of nuts (most of the time almonds) - lunch would be either salad with meat or some fat stuff, and dinner would be the same. I eat until I'm not hungry, not until I feel full or sick. I quite often eat avacado, tofu and chicken breast and salad. I also take some fish oil tablets.3) Not sure what N = 1 means? Could you please explain? 😀4) I don't have the finance yet to buy all the separate amino acids i.e. leucine/whey/creatine but I consume a combined protein shake - I use BALANCE WPC/WPI blend - it contains all the amino acids plus the leucine, creatine, glut etc :
It's definitely going to be a fairly customized CBL scheme since I don't weight lift (nor is it really recommended for martial arts artists). I really really really really really really really don't want to mess my body up! :'(Here's the results of what I should aim for according to the keto Calculator from the link Shrenlee has given me http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com 25g net carbs a day means 25g of any carb that would raise my blood sugar level - so that's insulin level, yes? It says to stay below 25g is best; so a mixture of refined carbs and fiber carbs (carbs found in vegetables) being a total of 25g of all carbs (both refined and fiber) seems to be reasonable to sustain my energy and aid in my recovery. Maybe push that to 30g like the prep phase. (this is to maintain weight, btw)
Please tell me what you guys think 🙂
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.