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November 22, 2013 at 2:56 pm #10272
Jonathan BlundellParticipantHi,Male74 Kg (163lb)167cm tallapprox 15% BFDoing Density Bulking, Now going to gym 6 days a week, twice a day. I am on a Push/Pull/Legs/Push/Pull/Legs/day off routine, doing strength in AM (fasted) - lifting heavy 531 plan with compound lifts, and in the late afternoon/early evening doing more hypertrophy work. Each session lasting 60-90mins.I would be very grateful if some of the CBL veterens (Trevor, Glitch / Ibob to name a few), could give me some general guidence/tips on how to distribute my macros through out the day, and how crazy I should go calorie/macro wise (I can eat a lot) The x2 a day training has thrown me a bit on how much Fat and protein to have ULC inbetween the two training sessions.All advice welcome.Thanks,Jon
November 22, 2013 at 3:19 pm #208943
Richard SchmittModeratorI hope I can help a tad bit.The mornings I would think that taking a Pre-Workout, like some caffeine would greatly benefit you. Along with a PWO Shake sans carbs for the morning session. I'd say around 20-25g of protein with the recommend creatine and leucine. For lunch which couple be a couple of hours away, I would suggest you get in a ULC meal. Macro wise, it wouldn't hurt to get quite a bit of fat with some protein. Maybe 50g fat with 30g protein. That way it is roughly 1:1 (ratio wise) during the day. For your evening session, you should do a PWO Shake with another 25-30g protein. Some do carbs, some don't. Since your DBing, I'd go with around 20g and get the rest from whole foods. Strive for at least 160g+ of protein in a day, fats I wouldn't think to go past 115g unless you need the calories. Carb amounts, will be justified on how you feel, what you did, and need. Since you're lifting 2x a day, 6 days a week (which is badass), I would think anything over 200g will be helpful.
November 22, 2013 at 3:26 pm #208944
TCBParticipant+1 To just about everything Tex said..Except, I personally--especially since it's DB, would add carbs to the morning PWO shake.. To take advantage of the "doubled anabolic effect" that Keifer mentions in the morning training chapter.. Then ULC again until after the evening training.
November 22, 2013 at 3:39 pm #208945
Brandon D ChristParticipantTex gave you good guidelines. Here's what you should do:Wakeup: coffee, preworkout, MCT oil (optional)TrainPost Workout: 25 g of whey, 5 g of leucine, 30 g of carbsEat ULC until about 3 hours before training. I'd try to get in 100 g of protein and 60-100 g of fatTrainPost Workout: Same as morning, only I'd skip the carbsBackload: Carb needs are individual, get the rest of your protein and fat needs. Shoot for about 170 g of protein and 120-150 g of fat for the day.I am most concerned about your training for two reasons:1. If I were you I'd do the strength work in the evening. Most people are stronger in the evening due to nervous system being "woken" up throughout the day.2. Your sessions are too long. You risk either burning yourself out or going through the motions and not really working hard. I'd limit yourself to 90 minutes on the strength session (though preferably 60 minutes). ON your hypertrophy sessions, you should be hauling ass and get them done in 45 minutes or less. With the amount of frequency you're doing there is no reason to be in the gym for more than an hour.
November 22, 2013 at 4:04 pm #208946
Jonathan BlundellParticipantMany thanks, for the very quick and useful responses. I have duly noted all that you have said. From tomorrow I will be… 1/ putting your suggested macros into play,2/ swapping my AM / PM work around (to do strength in PM)3/ Limiting lifting duration to 60mins per session.Only real change to my current meal plans,to implement your suggestions, is to reduce the whey amount in my PWO shake and shift some of the P + F from my backloads to the ULC part of the day (kind of a shame since I do enjoy something of a feast for my backloads!) Many thanks,Jon
November 22, 2013 at 4:12 pm #208947
Brandon D ChristParticipantMany thanks, for the very quick and useful responses. I have duly noted all that you have said. From tomorrow I will be... 1/ putting your suggested macros into play,2/ swapping my AM / PM work around (to do strength in PM)3/ Limiting lifting duration to 60mins per session.Only real change to my current meal plans,to implement your suggestions, is to reduce the whey amount in my PWO shake and shift some of the P + F from my backloads to the ULC part of the day (kind of a shame since I do enjoy something of a feast for my backloads!) Many thanks,Jon
You can feast during your backloads if you want. Nothing wrong with that. Just make sure your eating a decent amount during the day.
November 22, 2013 at 4:30 pm #208948
Richard SchmittModeratorBest of luck to you. Glad we were able to help out. Feasting isn't bad, as Ibob pointed out, there will be some days where you want to eat a whole house and then some, just listen to your body.
November 22, 2013 at 4:56 pm #208949
Trevor G FullbrightModeratorI will give you advice as someone who trains twice a day.For me I have coffee and MCT pre-workout in the morning, then PWO I have 20g whey, 5g leucine, 20g creatine, and that's it. For lunch I have 25g protein from food, around 20-40g fat, and then I also have 10g of whey with the meal. Now I also have been pulsing luecine 2 hours after my last meal/protein dose and I feel it's helped with recovery as far as how I can push sessions.Now since I don't do carbs PWO in the morning, I actually go 10g whey and 20g HBCD (carbs) pre-workout at night, a long with 1 scoop of biotest plazma (15g pepto pro, 40g HBCD) and that helps a ton.My sessions rarely pass 50 minutes, legs is generally the only time it will. My sessions are also pretty high in volume and intensity, I ramp up each sessions to a daily training max of X number of reps depending on where I am in my cycle, then do density work for 6-10 minutes with 70-85% of my 1RM training max so the intra-workout carbs are really helpful. I eat 300-400g of carbs most days, but I've learned to listen to my body and if I feel run down I don't bother counting anything and will eat high fat high carb foods untill I'm totally stuffed, pizza is my go to here.
November 24, 2013 at 1:58 pm #208950
Jonathan BlundellParticipantMany thanks again guys…. strength training in the PM is definately a better option, I have more strength and energy than AM training. One further question to your suggestions, where do you stand with the Ignition formula, post AM training (if I opt for some carbs here), and pre PM training? Or would I be best off just adding the equivilent P + F as whole foods during my ULC meals?Also thanks for the tip on keeping my training duration in check, the last few days I have really made the most of (maximum) 60min sessions, which is great for planning my time and getting the most out of each session.cheers,Jon
November 24, 2013 at 4:11 pm #208951
Brandon D ChristParticipantMany thanks again guys.... strength training in the PM is definately a better option, I have more strength and energy than AM training. One further question to your suggestions, where do you stand with the Ignition formula, post AM training (if I opt for some carbs here), and pre PM training? Or would I be best off just adding the equivilent P + F as whole foods during my ULC meals?Also thanks for the tip on keeping my training duration in check, the last few days I have really made the most of (maximum) 60min sessions, which is great for planning my time and getting the most out of each session.cheers,Jon
Ignition Formula - I do not take it because I take an intra workout shake. Post AM training - 20 or 30 g of carbs would probably be a good idea.Pre PM training - Again I skip this.
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