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Hey guys,This is my first post on a fitness forum. I've trained professionally now for 9 years -> PT, Competitions etc. I had a massive winter off-season and did a conventional bulk. Put on considerable amount of size - mix of fat and muscle. I'm a 6 ft 1 male and my current stats are 100kg at roughly 20% bodyfat (I usually stay below 10% but had a rough year last year with injuries and then the offseason bulk).I've come across CNS and am using it to try and get back down to close to 10% bodyfat. I did the orientation period and have had 3 carb nites so far. Losing inches slowly on the waist and that roll of fat when you sit down that falls just above the trouser line has been slowly reducing too so things look good!My question is regarding your PWO period and how it relates to being ketogenic. I train in the evenings, heavy resistance training (4 days a week, 3 days off). So I train from roughly 8pm - 9pm. My PWO shake is 1 scoop of ON 100% Whey with 5g Leucine and 1.5g Carnatine. I sleep at 11pm. Now if this produces an insulin spike as it's meant to, this would throw me out of ketosis right? My question is whether my body will fall back into a ketogenic state on it's own while I sleep or if I need to have some form of pure fat before bed to help push it into that state while I sleep i.e. MCT Oil or Decaf Coffee with Heavy Cream. This morning I checked my urine with keto-sticks and I was not in ketosis. However, about an hour after having my black coffee with heavy cream and MCT oil I was in keto (checked with keto-stick + my urine has a strong acidic fruity smell when I am in keto). So I guess I wanted to know if this was maybe a one off for being out of keto when I woke up (I usually am in keto when I wake up) or if I need to change something up.A usual ULC day for me looks like this:7am - Black coffee + 1 tsp Stevia + 2 tbsp MCT oil + 1 tbsp Heavy Cream 930am - Black coffee + 1tsp Stevia + 1 tbsp Heavy Cream10am - 1 small babybel cheese + 1/2 scoop ON Whey in water (the 1/2 scoop is to make sure Im not catabolic, I assumed 1/2 scoop of it wouldnt be enough for an insulin spike as the leucine content would be roughly 1 gram, am I wrong about this and should only take whey PWO?)12:30pm - 100g Chicken thighs, 1/2 avocado, 30g cheddar cheese3pm - Black coffee + 1tsp Stevia + 1 tbsp Heavy Cream, Handful of pecans and walnuts 5:30pm - 3 eggs cooked scrambled in 30g butter, 2 bacon rashers, few slices salami 7:30pm - 2 tbsp MCT oil in unsweetened almond milk + 2 tsp coffee + 1/2 scoop ON Whey (this is as a preworkout)9pm - 1 scoop ON whey + 5g Leucine + 1.5g L-Carnatine11pm - ZMA pills before bed.Apologies if I havent posted in the correct format or posted in the wrong place...I'd just really appreciate the advice of you guys who know this protocol a lot better than I do. I couldnt find an answer to my question elsewhere so assumed this is a new question...if not, apologies again!
Your goal is to not worry about being in ketosis or ketogenic. Unless you have a medical condition that calls for being keto, CNS is just an Ultra Low Carb diet that is structured better. Your goal is to control insulin and remove carbs during the week. The PWO Shake an hour after training is completely fine, and highly suggested to use.
Awesome thanks for clearing that up! I think I was definitely getting my lines blurred regarding the ultra-low carb and being in keto. Much clearer now. So the 1/2 scoop of ON Whey mid-morning and then again in my pre-workout shake shouldn't be a problem?
Thanks for the quick replies Big Tex I really appreciate it.Ok I'm going to take that on board and restrict Whey to my PWO shakes. My concern is that I carry quite a lot of muscle, but I can tend to drop it as easily if I'm not feeding it right, which is why I was using the whey because its a quick mid-morning protein hit when I'm at work and something more wholesome is harder to fit in. Do you have any suggestions as to something I could replace that shake with, or would I be OK to just take in some more chicken thighs with my lunch at noon?
Definitely suggest eating more whole foods, if anything the AM Shake from the CBL book would be helpful. 10g of whey, 1 tbsp. of CO in coffee. Or even add some HWC to that as well.
But I thought I was aiming to get away from taking the whey in the morning?…but the AM shake would mean still taking in 10g of it, which is sort of what I'm doing now with the 1/2 scoop of Whey (roughly 12g) + coffee with HWC.
You need to learn to read between the lines here because there's tons of contradicting post from members here. First they say no whey then say have 10g with some CO. LolBest and only way to figure out what works is to do it yourself because no one here has all the answers for YOU. Main thing isDon't stress the small shit until your LEAN like 10-12% because that's when it'll all start to count. Until then Eat Big, Lift Heavy, and ENJOY LIFE.
Lol thanks for the tips Scope. I think I just stressed myself out over nothing….not being in keto this morning shook me because it was unlike other mornings since I've been on CNS (though Big Tex cleared this up by reminding me this is an ultra-low carb diet NOT a keto one!). so I started looking for fixes when there most probably isnt anything broken! I think I'll probably stick with the half-shake in the morning until I find a more convenient protein-hit mid-morning at work...but I'll remove it from my pre-workout shake to look to maximize fat burning during my workouts. And as you said....going to keep reminding myself to relax until I'm down to close to 10% !!! 🙂
But I thought I was aiming to get away from taking the whey in the morning?...but the AM shake would mean still taking in 10g of it, which is sort of what I'm doing now with the 1/2 scoop of Whey (roughly 12g) + coffee with HWC.
You had it by itself,
A usual ULC day for me looks like this:7am - Black coffee + 1 tsp Stevia + 2 tbsp MCT oil + 1 tbsp Heavy Cream 930am - Black coffee + 1tsp Stevia + 1 tbsp Heavy Cream10am - 1 small babybel cheese + 1/2 scoop ON Whey in water (the 1/2 scoop is to make sure Im not catabolic,
the AM Shake is different and not -->
You need to learn to read between the lines here because there's tons of contradicting post from members here. First they say no whey then say have 10g with some CO. Lol
😉
Ahh ofcourse so the CO and/or HWC would numb any insulin spike from the whey much like cooking eggs in butter does the same there. I think I get it now. Thanks Tex!
Lol thanks for the tips Scope. I think I just stressed myself out over nothing....not being in keto this morning shook me because it was unlike other mornings since I've been on CNS (though Big Tex cleared this up by reminding me this is an ultra-low carb diet NOT a keto one!). so I started looking for fixes when there most probably isnt anything broken! I think I'll probably stick with the half-shake in the morning until I find a more convenient protein-hit mid-morning at work...but I'll remove it from my pre-workout shake to look to maximize fat burning during my workouts. And as you said....going to keep reminding myself to relax until I'm down to close to 10% !!! 🙂
Smart Move....This isn't a keto diet but 30g or less carbs a day is Keto. LolSee what I mean about reading between the lines?
Lol that's right 30g or less is keto isn't it! Haha definitely see what you mean about reading between the lines...sometimes the simplest things are the ones that we let confuse us the most!
Lol that's right 30g or less is keto isn't it! Haha definitely see what you mean about reading between the lines...sometimes the simplest things are the ones that we let confuse us the most!
Your picking it up/learning quick so you'll have good results. Do you and if it doesn't work then start to tweak what your doing. If you start off with all the mods and tweaks you have no where to turn when you eventually stall.
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