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Hi everyone,I'm Mike,20 years,overweight and I just started my preparation phase after already adjusting to the way of eating for almost a week in advance. I'm starting SA for loosing body fat, since I got pretty fat over the last year of simply doing nothing. I have read the book and I find it really focussed on the eating part (which is actually great) but the training part consists of not more than "hit the gym bro".(no offense; I understand that it's actually a pretty high standart eating model which is often executed by people who actually know how to train, but I'm a little unsure so I better ask)I have trained before, for about a year, with pretty much the exact opposite of eating (Carbs in the morning->fats in the evening) and I had, well, some tiny results.I went to the gym every second day, splitting the muscles in three groups and going for mass with about 10-12 reps and three sets per drill. I have not supplemented at all and I have watched my diet, but all the "knowledge" that I had was from random boards all over the internet haha.My actual question is: Can I train like this again? I sometimes felt like the book suggested training every day, which is a little too crass for someone who is practically untrained. So I want to do my old split, every second day, one day of rest, always different muscle groups. And should I then backload on the off-days; For the next workout, or on the actual training days?How do you guys train and for how long have you been training?I'm looking forward to your answers,MikeS.PS: I want to notice you that english is not my native language, so please try to find the essence of my poorly constructed sentencesĀ š
Hey Mike, some questions for you first… How much volume do you do per session? For example, if you are Training Chest/Triceps how many exercises do you do for each body part? Doing one or two exercises per body at 3x10-12 (4 total exercises in this case) probably isn't enough to warrant a backload.Also, how do you gauge your intensity? 10-12 reps is towards the higher end of reps you want to be doing for CBL to work, which is ok (I do sets/reps here myself on some exercises). However, because you mentioned you're realitively new to lifiting, the only concern I would have is that perhaps you wouldn't be going heavy enough for back loading to work. 3 Days is plenty of workout days as long as you're keeping the intensity up (I think Kiefer mentioned how busy he is and that lots of times he's only in the gym 3 days a week). I personally like to train 4-5 days a week, with no more than one days of rest inbetween training days (If I take 2 days off I feel crappy). For example, my current training split is: Monday- Shoulders Tuesday- off Wenesday- Back/BicepsThursday- Chest/TricepsFriday- Legs Saturday- ArmsSunday- offAnd if you're training in the "sweet spot" (late afternoon/early evening) then you'll want to back load ON the days you train. As always, just my 2 cents...
I always trained around 3 muscle groups when I went training for example :chest,biceps,legsback,shoulders, abs,triceps,legswhich i have tweaked a little after a few weeks. I tried to do at least 2 different exercises per muscle, starting with the bigger muscles and going then to the smaller ones. The training that I did took me around 40 minutes ,plus cycling to the gym and back home, as some kind of warming up/slowly cooling down.Furthermore I trained so that I have have no or just a bit sore muscles the next day which doesn't mean that I did a total pussy workout, but I paid more attention to slow and correct execution than to packing myself with more weight than I could handle.I would train every second day, so 7 times in 2 weeks with 7 off days.What do you guys think?Edit : I am able to do all my workouts around 5 to 6 so perfect timing, I guess.
Doing one or two exercises per body at 3x10-12 (4 total exercises in this case) probably isn't enough to warrant a backload.
I've struggled with this, too, since CBL doesn't really explain much about the workouts. He just says it should be intense and weight goal oriented.What's the guideline?My current plan has me doing 4 sets, but it sort of Body For Life style. 12 reps low weight, 10x higher weight, 8x nearly max, 8x last rep should be close to but not quite at failure.So, every group ends up at near failure. But, only on the last set, not every set.Are you saying that's not enough of a burn to benefit from backloading?What do you folks recommend?PS: I've got 60 pounds to lose, so I'm really looking for fat loss with muscle/strength gain as secondary. And, I want to make CBL work since it's a much more doable lifestyle than Carb Nite.
Seems like you got a good grasp of what to do and you're headed in the right direction. I respect the fact that you're not just forsaking form to throw a bunch of weight on the bar. In my expeirence as a trainer thats normally a big problem with new(er) lifters. With that being said, the soreness post training or DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness), isn't always something to avoid (personally I like the feeling but I'm weird like thatĀ 8)). The one thing I might recommend is to try decreasing the reps and kicking up the weight on your multi joint movements. As I'm sure you are aware, CBL is based on heavy concentric contractions. This doesn't mean you need to be deadlifting like a strongman in training, but adding some weight to exercises you feel comfortable with (Military, Bench, Rows etc..) will only help you with both adding muscle and with making the diet more efficent. Just because you're doing more weight doesn't mean your form should go to shit either. Once your form starts to break, it typically means the primary muscles for that exercise are fatgiued and you can stop the set right there. It will just take some tinkering to find the right weight that works you hard (and safely) at 6-8 reps, instead of 10-12.Hope this helps a bit
@ Kaprice – I was suggesting that only performing 2 exercises per body part at the set/rep total he was doing, probably isn't going to be enough. Obviously there are exceptions, but it was more of a generalized “blanket” statement.I'm unfamiliar with Body For Life Program, but if you are indicating that you are doing 4 exercises with 4 sets of 12/10/8/8 reps, per body part, you should fine. Thats actually a decent amount of volume. Especially if you are doing multiple body parts per day. The intensity seems good too. With 12 reps being the upper limit, performing 4 sets that decrease reps and increase weight should be good program for CBL.
Thanks this actually helped a lot!I've read a few more beginner's posts today and think that it's best to switch my split to a classic Push/Pull/Legs.I will adjust my reps to 6-8,that is no problem I guess.I've also read that the training during the prep phase is optional but I want to keep it up as long as I don't feel too lethargic. Today (1st day of prep) I've trained most muscle groups so that my body can adjust to pumping. Now I want to start my split, or should I proceed like this for a little longer. (I know people who recommend a full body training in each session for at least 6 months)Few more questions though:After I woke up I drank a triple espresso (nothing new to me I do this since I'm 15Ā ;D) mixed with 10g of whey, a little coconut butter and cream ( I think around 20 ml or so). At 3pm I made scrambled eggs (3 eggs fried in butter basically) and trained at around 5. After that I drank the PWO shake without the carbs of course and ate a lamb filet with fried vegetables(zucchini,onions and 2 tomatoes) and cream at around 7. I didn't feel hungry or powered out during the day except after trainingĀ ;).Is it useful to take leuchine during the ULC days?I also skipped the creatine because I've heard that it's not bringing big advantages for people who are not used to train. Should I eat more/less?I had the feeling that perhaps it's not enough fat and protein but for now I don't feel like I need anything.Thanks in advance for any response
You'll read all over these boards that the best way to move through CBL is by “feel.” Since there are very general guidelines in the book to the macro calories you need daily (none at all for off days or prep phase), as long as you feel full with good energy you should be ok. I'll venture to say that in a few more days eating only 3 eggs and lamb/veggies for dinner probably won't be enough, but if it is go for it. When you do actually get to backloading however, make sure you're taking in a little bit more food, especially on your off days.In reference to leucine, if you're doing Strength Accumulation you're going to want to avoid it. Keifer mentioned in one of his pod-casts that Leucine on its own can have a very similiar effect on insulin as carbs do, ie making it spike. So where it's good to have with your PWO shake after training once you're through the prep-phase, it will probably harm your progress, especially during prep-phase. Also, I'm not sure who told you creatine won't help? (No one on these forums I assume). But I WOULD recommend taking it. It's one of, if not the most, researched training supplements in the world. 100's of studies have been published proving it's efficacy. Regardless of your training expierience, it will only help your during your workouts with stamina/recovery and gains. And post-work out, as is mentioned in the book, daily supplementation helps down-regulate myostatin, or in other words helps slow the process of muscle breakdown. Sounds like several good reasons for taking it to me.By the way, a triple espresso is ridiculous... If not for the amount of caffeine, the taste alone--ugh. More power to you brother.
I want to add something.Ā Make sure your reps are explosive on the cocentric (positive) portion of the rep.Ā Many beginners do not do this for whatever reason.Ā Not only will you get the best results with CBL by doing this, but this needed to develop power and will assist in developing strength.As far as the eccentric (negative), it should always be controlled, but if you training purely for strength (you absolutely do not care about asthetics) then you want the negetive to be as quick as possible.Ā If you do care about asthetics, then a nice slow negative of about 2-3 seconds is desirable.
Okay thank's for clearing up the leucine and creatine part. I've read about creatine in other forums that's what got me sceptical. I already assumed leucine being useless in prep and on off days by the description in the book but I wanted to hear it from someone with a little more experience than I haveĀ ;D. Do you guys always use creatine or do you use it in cycles?And about the espresso: I really like the taste of good espresso and I'm living near to a roasting plant so I get the BEST. I drink like a bowl of it (so that's roundabout 3 shots i guess), normally as a cappuchino with milk, but I figured cream would be better due to nutrients.I think that I will continue to eat whenever I'm hungry and make sure that I always have enough good protein and fat sources at home.Thanks again you cleared up lots of things which makes me feel more informed about eating/training.
No problem. When I first started back-loading just under a month ago I had a bunch of similar questions myself. The DH forum is a pretty cool group of people and helped me on several occassions (ibobland helped answer a couple of my questions as well). I'm no expert but after spending a considerable amount of time each day pouring through the various topics and boards I feel like I'm finally getting a good grasp on how to approach backloading. However, just like was mentioned earlier on, eventually you're going to have to find out what works best for you personally and tweak it accordingly. I'm still making adjustments to my own diet/training, so it won't happen overnight. Just keep working and asking the right questions and you be headed in the right direction sooner than you think.
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