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July 2, 2012 at 11:50 pm #2460
iDaveKeymasterHi guys. I recently devoured the CBL book and I am planning to start CBLing next week. Below I will lay out my initial plan, though I suspect this may change following a re-read of the book and your input. To provide some context, here are my stats, background and goals:• Former powerlifter looking to get back into the sport.• Started lifting again in January.• In March I realised I was a 90kg/198lb ‘skinny fat’ person and decided to shed the extra fat, since I could probably still make strength gains while doing so.• From March 7 to date I’ve dropped from 90kg to 80kg/176lb @ approximately 10-11% body fat (DEXA scans to confirm on Friday) using the ‘Leangains’ intermittent fasting protocol. Previous DEXA scans have confirmed the weight loss has been 100% fat (and even a little muscle gain), but now I’m ready to build some serious muscle and strength (and drop a little bit more fat at the same time).• As I progressed with my diet I found myself cutting all carbs from rest days and shifting more and more of my training day carbs to the end of the day (though I was only consuming 800gm carbs per week total), so transitioning to carb backloading makes infinite sense to me!• As I’m sitting at about 80kg right now, I’d like to compete in the 83kg class at the end of November. Ideally I’d like to get my weight up to 84kg, so I can drop down comfortably with a little water manipulation (only a 2 hour weigh in). If anyone here has experience with making weight, performance and CBL, I’d most like to hear from you.• I think in general I’m a pretty depleted 80kg person right now, so I suspect with resuming creatine, eating 3 times as many carbs per week etc. I’m likely to gain a wee bit of non-muscle lean mass pretty quickly. Accordingly, I’ll probably need to drop some fat to make room for more muscle growth while remaining in my class.With that background out of the way here is my plan so far:Training 4x per week: Mon, Tues, Thurs, Sat. CBL on all those days. Monday = upper, Tuesday = lower, Thursday and Saturday = full body. I also plan to continue my morning walks. I know Kiefer isn’t a fan of walking for fat loss, but I have found it effective and enjoy listening to audio books etc. while I do it. I also have a 4 day hike planned after my meet so I’d like to be somewhat prepared for that.NutritionFirstly, I don't plan to do the prep phase. The last 4 months of low carb has prepared me enough I feel. Agree? Disagree?Carb back load on all training days. Low carb non-training days.Non-training Day• ~8.30am & 11.00am: accelerator shake (400mg caffeine, 1tbsp MCT oil, 10gm WPI [given my goals should I include the WPI?])• 1.00pm: ~450gm chicken, fibrous vege (spinach, broccoli, capsicum are my usual), some fat (cheese? Nuts?), 11 fish oil caps (5gm of omega 3)• ~7.00pm: 500gm steak, fibrous vege, some fatTraining Day• ~8.30am & 11.00am: accelerator shake (400mg caffeine, 1tbsp MCT oil, 10gm WPI)• 1.00pm: ~450gm chicken, fibrous vege, some fat, 11 fish oil caps)• Pre-workout shake: 400gm caffeine, 15gm WPI, 1tbsp MCT, 5gm creatine• Train at ~6.00-6.30pm weekdays, ~4.00pm on Saturday – no more than 1-1.25 hrs• Intra-workout shake: 10gm WPI, 20gm casein hydrolysate, 3gm leucine• PWO shake: 200gm caffeine, 20gm WPI, 40gm dextrose, 15gm casein, 15gm casein hydrolysate, 3gm leucine, 5gm creatine• Shake with meal: 10gm hydrolysate, 5gm leucine, 5gm creatineThe Carb-fiesta!• 600gm carbs• Start 30 mins PWO (~7.30-8.00pm), aim to have them finished by 9.00pm (usually go to sleep around 10.30-11.00pm).• I imagine some experimentation will be needed but here are my initial thoughts:• Option 1 – regular meal + binge: ~200gm of meat (probably chicken/kangaroo), 200gm worth of carbs from white rice/potato/sweet potato/roti bread/white bread + remaining carbs from pastries/donuts/ice cream/ banana bread/flavoured milk with a few purely sugary things thrown in I’m sure.• Option 2 – pancakes: The only limit is my imagination… enough said. If the protein is a bit light/low quality, I will have 200gm of meat shortly before bed.• Option 3 – eating out: large pizza/burger with fries option. 200gm meat before bed if thee protein is low/low quality.Thanks in advance for any assistance!
July 3, 2012 at 1:50 pm #60126
Tanner FoxParticipantAnswers below:
Hi guys. I recently devoured the CBL book and I am planning to start CBLing next week. Below I will lay out my initial plan, though I suspect this may change following a re-read of the book and your input. To provide some context, here are my stats, background and goals:• Former powerlifter looking to get back into the sport.• Started lifting again in January.• In March I realised I was a 90kg/198lb ‘skinny fat’ person and decided to shed the extra fat, since I could probably still make strength gains while doing so.• From March 7 to date I’ve dropped from 90kg to 80kg/176lb @ approximately 10-11% body fat (DEXA scans to confirm on Friday) using the ‘Leangains’ intermittent fasting protocol. Previous DEXA scans have confirmed the weight loss has been 100% fat (and even a little muscle gain), but now I’m ready to build some serious muscle and strength (and drop a little bit more fat at the same time).• As I progressed with my diet I found myself cutting all carbs from rest days and shifting more and more of my training day carbs to the end of the day (though I was only consuming 800gm carbs per week total), so transitioning to carb backloading makes infinite sense to me!• As I’m sitting at about 80kg right now, I’d like to compete in the 83kg class at the end of November. Ideally I’d like to get my weight up to 84kg, so I can drop down comfortably with a little water manipulation (only a 2 hour weigh in). If anyone here has experience with making weight, performance and CBL, I’d most like to hear from you.• I think in general I’m a pretty depleted 80kg person right now, so I suspect with resuming creatine, eating 3 times as many carbs per week etc. I’m likely to gain a wee bit of non-muscle lean mass pretty quickly. Accordingly, I’ll probably need to drop some fat to make room for more muscle growth while remaining in my class.You are correct and most likely to experience some water weight gain with implementing creatine and more carbs in your die.With that background out of the way here is my plan so far:Training 4x per week: Mon, Tues, Thurs, Sat. CBL on all those days. Monday = upper, Tuesday = lower, Thursday and Saturday = full body. I also plan to continue my morning walks. I know Kiefer isn’t a fan of walking for fat loss, but I have found it effective and enjoy listening to audio books etc. while I do it. I also have a 4 day hike planned after my meet so I’d like to be somewhat prepared for that.Kiefer has actually stated that he encourages his clients to go for walks here and there but it is based on the premise of overall health, not for the goal of fat loss.NutritionFirstly, I don't plan to do the prep phase. The last 4 months of low carb has prepared me enough I feel. Agree? Disagree?What is your current diet like now as far as low carb goes, and what did your refeeds look like?Carb back load on all training days. Low carb non-training days.Non-training Day• ~8.30am & 11.00am: accelerator shake (400mg caffeine, 1tbsp MCT oil, 10gm WPI [given my goals should I include the WPI?])WPI is fine.• 1.00pm: ~450gm chicken, fibrous vege (spinach, broccoli, capsicum are my usual), some fat (cheese? Nuts?), 11 fish oil caps (5gm of omega 3)• ~7.00pm: 500gm steak, fibrous vege, some fatThe recommendation is 50% fat/ 50% protein so make sure the meals are near that ratio. Training Day• ~8.30am & 11.00am: accelerator shake (400mg caffeine, 1tbsp MCT oil, 10gm WPI)• 1.00pm: ~450gm chicken, fibrous vege, some fat, 11 fish oil caps)• Pre-workout shake: 400gm caffeine, 15gm WPI, 1tbsp MCT, 5gm creatine• Train at ~6.00-6.30pm weekdays, ~4.00pm on Saturday – no more than 1-1.25 hrs• Intra-workout shake: 10gm WPI, 20gm casein hydrolysate, 3gm leucineIf you were doing strongman training or your workouts were longer I would suggest this but if its just heavy lifting I would include this.• PWO shake: 200gm caffeine, 20gm WPI, 40gm dextrose, 15gm casein, 15gm casein hydrolysate, 3gm leucine, 5gm creatineHave you tried the 200mg of caffeine this late before and has it affected your sleep pattern? The caffeine PWO does help in he morning workouts to imitate the optimal circadian rhythm which makes CBL so effective but I am not sure why you are including it at night as your don't have to mimic the circadiam rhythm.• Shake with meal: 10gm hydrolysate, 5gm leucine, 5gm creatineThe Carb-fiesta!• 600gm carbs• Start 30 mins PWO (~7.30-8.00pm), aim to have them finished by 9.00pm (usually go to sleep around 10.30-11.00pm).• I imagine some experimentation will be needed but here are my initial thoughts:• Option 1 – regular meal + binge: ~200gm of meat (probably chicken/kangaroo), 200gm worth of carbs from white rice/potato/sweet potato/roti bread/white bread + remaining carbs from pastries/donuts/ice cream/ banana bread/flavoured milk with a few purely sugary things thrown in I’m sure.• Option 2 – pancakes: The only limit is my imagination… enough said. If the protein is a bit light/low quality, I will have 200gm of meat shortly before bed.• Option 3 – eating out: large pizza/burger with fries option. 200gm meat before bed if thee protein is low/low quality.I'm not sure what your appetite is but to get 600g of carbs in 1 HOUR would be a task for me. If you are finding you are short or your totals because you are too full I'd suggest switching to protein powder as your protein source (to leave more room for carbs). And if the healthier carbs are preventing you from reaching your totals dont be afraid to throw some more sugary stuff in there.Thanks in advance for any assistance!
July 3, 2012 at 11:36 pm #60127
iDaveGuest-
Thanks for your time Tanner. In response to your comments:"
What is your current diet like now as far as low carb goes, and what did your refeeds look like?"I'm practically zero carb 4 days per week, Tuesday 330gm , Thursday and Saturday 230gm."The recommendation is 50% fat/ 50% protein so make sure the meals are near that ratio."Sweet - I take it this is a non-training day recommendation and on training days I follow the pre-workout fat recommendation in the book?"If you were doing strongman training or your workouts were longer I would suggest this but if its just heavy lifting I would include this."I assume you mean 'wouldn't include this'. Two of my four training sessions per week are volume sessions, perhaps I should use it during those sessions but not the other two?"Have you tried the 200mg of caffeine this late before and has it affected your sleep pattern? The caffeine PWO does help in he morning workouts to imitate the optimal circadian rhythm which makes CBL so effective but I am not sure why you are including it at night as your don't have to mimic the circadiam rhythm."No I haven't. I took this straight from the 'Hypertrophic Potentiator' in the book. I see Kiefer says in the book "Both increase the rate at which glycogen stores refill" - but I'm inclined to agree with you that this may not be worth it due to its interference with sleep."I'm not sure what your appetite is but to get 600g of carbs in 1 HOUR would be a task for me. If you are finding you are short or your totals because you are too full I'd suggest switching to protein powder as your protein source (to leave more room for carbs). And if the healthier carbs are preventing you from reaching your totals dont be afraid to throw some more sugary stuff in there."CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. I guess 9.00pm is my goal, but if that drifts out to 9.30pm I won't be too worried. Noted on the protein powder point.I think I've settled on my first carb backload:
- 40gm dextrose from PWO shake
- 750gm sweet potato - 150g
- 2 roti bread - 110g
- 1 can of creamed rice - 75g
- banana - 25g
- 150g carbs worth of gluten free banana bread (about half a loaf from memory)
- 50g worth of carbs from the biscuit/chocolate stash
Salivating at the thought...
July 5, 2012 at 2:15 pm #60128
Tanner FoxParticipant-
Thanks for your time Tanner. In response to your comments:"
What is your current diet like now as far as low carb goes, and what did your refeeds look like?"I'm practically zero carb 4 days per week, Tuesday 330gm , Thursday and Saturday 230gm."The recommendation is 50% fat/ 50% protein so make sure the meals are near that ratio."Sweet - I take it this is a non-training day recommendation and on training days I follow the pre-workout fat recommendation in the book?I usually use to have some pre-training fat but Kiefer's current plan has me having nothing Pre-WO and I have noticed training fasted works best for me. You will have to try it and see."If you were doing strongman training or your workouts were longer I would suggest this but if its just heavy lifting I would include this."I assume you mean 'wouldn't include this'. Two of my four training sessions per week are volume sessions, perhaps I should use it during those sessions but not the other two?Correct (typo). I am doing a VERY high volume right now and while it takes a little while to adjust IMO you would get a better response with the backload by not having the shake intraWO. You're not going to know until you try it though but I am giving you the recommendations Kiefer has given me."Have you tried the 200mg of caffeine this late before and has it affected your sleep pattern? The caffeine PWO does help in he morning workouts to imitate the optimal circadian rhythm which makes CBL so effective but I am not sure why you are including it at night as your don't have to mimic the circadiam rhythm."No I haven't. I took this straight from the 'Hypertrophic Potentiator' in the book. I see Kiefer says in the book "Both increase the rate at which glycogen stores refill" - but I'm inclined to agree with you that this may not be worth it due to its interference with sleep."I'm not sure what your appetite is but to get 600g of carbs in 1 HOUR would be a task for me. If you are finding you are short or your totals because you are too full I'd suggest switching to protein powder as your protein source (to leave more room for carbs). And if the healthier carbs are preventing you from reaching your totals dont be afraid to throw some more sugary stuff in there."CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. I guess 9.00pm is my goal, but if that drifts out to 9.30pm I won't be too worried. Noted on the protein powder point.I think I've settled on my first carb backload:
- 40gm dextrose from PWO shake
- 750gm sweet potato - 150g
- 2 roti bread - 110g
- 1 can of creamed rice - 75g
- banana - 25g
- 150g carbs worth of gluten free banana bread (about half a loaf from memory)
- 50g worth of carbs from the biscuit/chocolate stash
Salivating at the thought...
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