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Hi all,I've just started CBL and wanted to understand everyones views on the effect of this type of diet on thyroid hormones, specifically T3 levels. There are studies showing low carb, high fat and high protein diets reduces T3 (http://anthonycolpo.com/is-a-low-carb-diet-bad-for-your-thyroid/ explains the main ones) and obviously T3 is crucial to proper body functioning and also effective weight loss.I am pretty well tuned to my bodies T3 levels, due to hypothyroid being brought on by overtraining/undereating in the past. Since starting the CBL i've notice hypo symptoms returning, the main indicators for me are poor digestion, gut issues, loose stools and sore heels feet.Has any else experienced this and what is your take on evidence that low carb diets such as CBL or Carb night can cause low T3 levels. Some issues with low T3 in regard to bodybuilding and dieting include reduced Testosteron, IGf-1 levels and fat metabolism. p.s I'm not here to slate CBL, i'm actually very keen for it to work but concerned about the genuine evidence in support of thyroid problems, and my own personal experience.
What time period are those studies done over?I don't know about T-3, but lots of performance studies show low carb to be detrimental to cognitive function and physical performance. Take one look at Kiefer and you can see this isn't the case. The studies don't monitor the progression beyond the adaptation period (which takes much longer than a single week)
which is precisely why both diets include high carb refeeds… if you were doing a keto diet without carbs then I' might be concerned about T3.are you eating enough carbs? or the right carbs? your symptoms are vague enough to be anything. do you eat gluten? nuts? dairy?
The issue that most people have concerning a drop in T3 and a low carb diet comes from not eating enough fat. They go low carb, eat boatloads of protein and still avoid fats, which in turn will forces their body to convert the excess protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis to maintain stable blood glucose levels. This, for short periods of time is not a big deal, but over a long period of time thanks to the elevated cortisol will stop the conversion of T3 into T4. This is where you hear stories of people losing their hair, feeling like garbage etc. while on a “low carb” diet. Let's be very clear – there is a right way and a wrong way to do low carb. This is the wrong way. A proper ketogenic diet however, although does cause a drop in T3 known as euthyroid stress syndrome, is not pathogenic in the same way hypothyroidism is. Lyle McDonald gives a good summary of this: Hypothyroidism and euthyroid stress syndrome (ESS) There are two common syndromes associated with low levels of T3 which need to be differentiated from one another. Hypothyroidism is a disease characterized by higher than normal thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) and lower levels of T3 and T4. The symptoms of this disease include fatigue and a low metabolic rate.The decrease in T3 due to hypothyroidism must be contrasted to the decrease seen during dieting or carbohydrate restriction. Low levels of T3 with normal levels of T4 and TSH (as seen in ketogenic dieting) is known clinically as euthyroid stress syndrome (ESS) and is not associated with the metabolic derangements seen in hypothyroidism (1). The drop in T3 does not appear to be linked to a drop in metabolic rate during a ketogenic diet (17,52).As with other hormones in the body (for example insulin), the decrease in circulating T3 levels may be compensated for by an increase in receptor activity and/or number (1). This has been shown to occur in mononuclear blood cells but has not been studied in human muscle or fat cells (53). So while T3 does go down on a ketogenic diet, this does not appear to be the reason for a decrease in metabolic rate.Lyle McDonald (1998) The Ketogenic Diet: A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner (pp. 48)"Another thing to look at is iodine intake. Iodine is organified to thyroglobulin to create thyroid hormones and is critical for proper thyroid function. A lot of people who go low carb cut out a lot of processed foods that are generally high in iodized salt; over the course of a few months their iodine levels plummet and along with it so does their T3. Along with iodine, If they're not eating enough seafood, they may not be getting enough selenium, which assists in the production two enzymes: glutathione peroxidase and iodothyroinine deiodinase, which control the removal of the iodine molecule to convert from T4 to T3, T3 to T2 and T2 to T1. There are tons of other variables to look at including electrolyte balances, micronutrient intake, sleep, stress etc. - to make a blanket statement like "low carb causes hypothyroidism" is fairly misleading and not really accurate. Low Carb, when done incorrectly, can most definitely cause thyroid issues. However, a nutrient dense ketogenic diet is something very different animal, and from I've seen in the literature, is perfectly safe for your thyroid.
Thanks for the input people!In terms of my own situation, it is the reduced T3 symptoms I am experiencing and know them well. I systematically ruled out food allergies a long time ago, and ensure adequate supplementation of iodine, selnium and B12 which are all required for T4 to T3 conversion.Having gone over the studies again fat levels does have a lot to do with it as pointed out by "oshare". I guess the bit I struggle with on the CBL programme is not knowing what amounts I should be getting per day and what type of fats. I've been using double cream in my coffee and taking a spoonful of coconut oil in the mornings and plan to add a good fish oil supplement. What amounts and types of fat do you guys take and at what points throughout the day. Do you have a measurement of how much fat (mg) you are eating per day?Monsiuer, you asked if I was eating enough carbs or the right carbs. As far as i understood it, on days i don't lift i limit carbs to under 30g (excluding salad and veg) and days I do lift I should eat as much high carbs post training until bed as I can. Could you give me any pointers in regard to amount and type of carbs?Thanks again
A couple of years ago, I think I might have (never confirmed by doctor) run into, or at least been heading for, T3 problems. I was on a high protein, moderate carb (mostly peri-workout) and low fat diet. I was cranky, fatigued, constantly shivering, and my sex drive disappeared for about a year or more. This is one of the reasons why I love the CNS. Although it didn't 'melt' the fat off my body, it made me feel a hell of a lot better and I suppose that's the most important thing. No matter what happens, I'm never going low fat again.
Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear about that Cropsy
Thanks Fairy. Yep, it was pretty miserable but I'd say a lot of people had similar experiences. I was doing that whole 6 meals a day crap and having to figure out the logistics of mid morning and mid afternoon snacks while out working etc. So glad that's behind me. 😀
@alanc, if your digestion is crappy( ::)), try eating gluten free for a while (at least a month). Also, maybe add in probiotics like fermented veg during ULC (make your own sauerkraut/pickles)Easy to digest carbs for backloads would be well-cooked potatoes/sweet potatoes, ripe bananas, white rice and ice cream if you can tolerate the dairy.Yeah, off days keep carbs as low as possible. Experiment with the amounts of carbs. Look bad next day->cut back on CHO.Coconut oil is supposedly good for the thyroid, so keep saturated fats and animal fats up and limit nuts/seeds. Most people eat equal amounts fat and protein in grams during ULC. So 70g PRO and 70g FAT for a meal. Totals are different for everyone though.
Thanks man, to be honest there's not alot I don't know about thyroid problems gut problems, rt3, adrenal fatigue etc now, had to research this stuff to get me back fighting fit for the last year. The digestion issues goes beyond just crappy digestion, and really is a result of a slowed digestive system which results in gut bacteria etc. Like I said i'm pretty in tune with my active T3 levels and know from experience what it feels like when T3 drops and also how it feels when it picks back up through doctors giving me T3 meds. Gluten can be an issue when T3 is low, but that is the same with most people. I guess it will just take me a while to get used to the CBL diet. It is worth people being aware and knowing how to spot the sides early tho, as thyriod resistance is a pretty horrible thing and is effectively the same as being hypothyriod in terms of symptoms.Anyway, thanks again for input, i'll post again and do an update a few months in.
I'm on CNS and have the autoimmune variety thyroid disease. I have to take all the hormones to replace what my body is not making, including T3. A lot of hypo people, including myself, will tell ya that they can't LOSE without going low carb. I didn't become hypo because I was dieting so maybe that's different?
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