It has less to do with glycogen and more to do with the "insulin memory" effect.  If you get a big insulin spike then fast and have a little bit of carbs, the body will "remember" the insulin spike from the night before and give you a big spike from just a little bit of carbs.  This is where the anabolic benefits from fasted training comes from.  It only works if you had carbs the night before.Yes if you train at 9 am it is the same, as long as you are fasted.

So if i train fasted at 10-11am and end about 12, I'll still consume carbs pwo to take advantage of this insulin memory effect right? Just clarifying as I'm not sure if this would be classified as a morning fasted workout or an afternoon session since no carbs pwo for the latter.

Correct, you can do this as long as you are coming off an overnight fast.I think the post workout carbs ONLY come if you train EARLY in the morning. Even if you fast until lunchtime, your body's circadian rhythms still prevail. From the book:"Immediately after the morning training, therefore, things remainexactly as if training at the ideal time including the carbs: the posttraining-formula is identical to normal.""Middle Training includes training any time between thefirst meal of the day to shortly after noon and is possibly the worsttime to train for Carb Back-Loading because, unfortunately, nospecial hormonal scenarios or bio rhythms exist from which wecould gain advantage."So it is not the fasting that causes the "insulin memory" but is the time of training that matters. Don't have the PWO carbs after your noon-ish workout.

No, it is the fast that matters.  This is why it is called fasted training and not morning training.  Middle training is when you consume anything  between waking up and training.  It is in your own quote.

Ok so I've gotten some mixed answers about CO technically breaking a fast or not.My work schedule is changing and so instead of working out late afternoon I will probably be training around 11 am or so now. So a small backload the night before and only coffee with CO/possibly a pre workout (d stunner/jack3d) before a workout at this time. Good plan?

Ok so I've gotten some mixed answers about CO technically breaking a fast or not.My work schedule is changing and so instead of working out late afternoon I will probably be training around 11 am or so now. So a small backload the night before and only coffee with CO/possibly a pre workout (d stunner/jack3d) before a workout at this time. Good plan?

I'm pretty sure a fast means literally no nutrition, so having CO is technically breaking the fast (although it will provide hormonal/metabolic benefits, so this is not a bad thing).In this case I would definitely have CO with the morning coffee. As far as the backload the night before goes, you could start small and see how your body responds. Make adjustments to the number of carbs you're eating if you look too flat, flabby, etc. the next day.Check the ingredient labels on the pre-workouts. If they contain the ingredient acesulfame-K (also written as Ace-K, Acesulfame Potassium) then you will spike your insulin a bit too early. so just keep an eye on those.

ok thanks man.