Well, I've never done WW, or known anyone who has. All I know is that they do calorie counting and encourage people to do cardio . . . Oh, and they sell cakes to fat people.I think they are likely ruining people's metabolisms. CNS is a better way to go. It's not as extreme as you make out. Something that is extreme is painstakingly calculating every 'calorie' that you consume and every 'calorie' that you supposedly burn. If people can do that, they can drop carbs. Bacon and eggs really isn't that hard to eat.

Since you've never done WW you must not know that it does not, in fact, advocate calorie counting. It uses a point based system. The old system used to use fat, fiber and calories to calculate points, but the new system uses fat, fiber, carbs (and maybe calories...can't remember) to calculate. Surprisingly, if you chose higher carb foods, the higher the points. And the heavier you are, the more points you get for the day so it's definately not a starvation diet.Now, don't get me wrong...I don't agree with the WW products but I never bought any so there's that. And, it may not seem extreme to you (or me who has done paleo before and other low carb diets) but not having carbs except once a week is hell and extreme to a lot of people. Especially when there are programs like WW out there that work for a lot of people. Most people aren't trying to be athletic or train for a competition. They just want to be thin, even if it means being "skinny fat" which WW can certainly do!

I think this type of plan will probably slow people's metabolisms down, and they will likely have to stay on WW for life to maintain.Also, just look at Jean. She is clearly obese, yet she is 140 lbs at 5'7. What does that say about her LBM?For comparison, I am 130 lbs and 5'3 and reasonably lean (yet, I'm hardly a powerlifter).If people following these sort of low calorie (and it is low cal, because they're not using any sort of hormonal method to reduce BF%) diets knew what they were doing to their bone density, their health, and their metabolism, I don't believe they would be so quick to use WW.

This is the end of the discussion between diets, when you feed a fat girl WW Cheesecake sure she adds up he points or whatever the system is and fits the reduced calorie cheesecake into her macros and she loses weight then she moves to India for a job oppurtunity and guess what she needs cheescake bt they dont have WW cheeseake so she eats regular cheescake and puts the fat back on or more. Also can we please mention health here? Carb nite is based around whole foods, whether grain or grass fed they are WHOLE foods with very little chemicals, preservatives and proceessing. WW allows you to have white bread for breakfast, frozen meals for lunch and dinner with some awful proccessed desert. I am an avid opponent of any program like WW, your fat cause you like cake and cookies buying less calorie dense cakes and cookies doesn't solve the problem. (end rant)

I think this type of plan will probably slow people's metabolisms down, and they will likely have to stay on WW for life to maintain.Also, just look at Jean. She is clearly obese, yet she is 140 lbs at 5'7. What does that say about her LBM?For comparison, I am 130 lbs and 5'3 and reasonably lean (yet, I'm hardly a powerlifter).If people following these sort of low calorie (and it is low cal, because they're not using any sort of hormonal method to reduce BF%) diets knew what they were doing to their bone density, their health, and their metabolism, I don't believe they would be so quick to use WW.

This is the end of the discussion between diets, when you feed a fat girl WW Cheesecake sure she adds up he points or whatever the system is and fits the reduced calorie cheesecake into her macros and she loses weight then she moves to India for a job oppurtunity and guess what she needs cheescake bt they dont have WW cheeseake so she eats regular cheescake and puts the fat back on or more. Also can we please mention health here? Carb nite is based around whole foods, whether grain or grass fed they are WHOLE foods with very little chemicals, preservatives and proceessing. WW allows you to have white bread for breakfast, frozen meals for lunch and dinner with some awful proccessed desert. I am an avid opponent of any program like WW, your fat cause you like cake and cookies buying less calorie dense cakes and cookies doesn't solve the problem. (end rant)

Alright, this argument is getting a little too personal so this is my last input. I don't remember reading anything in CNS about eating whole foods and less processed foods so that must be in one of the bio jacked episodes or youtube videos. However, I don't do it because kiefer told me to, I do it because I enjoy whole foods and believe its healthier. Also, lets not get too carried away with calling the people who eat cookies and cakes fat. After all, CNS (and backloading) allow us to eat this way as well.

I think this type of plan will probably slow people's metabolisms down, and they will likely have to stay on WW for life to maintain.Also, just look at Jean. She is clearly obese, yet she is 140 lbs at 5'7. What does that say about her LBM?For comparison, I am 130 lbs and 5'3 and reasonably lean (yet, I'm hardly a powerlifter).If people following these sort of low calorie (and it is low cal, because they're not using any sort of hormonal method to reduce BF%) diets knew what they were doing to their bone density, their health, and their metabolism, I don't believe they would be so quick to use WW.

This is the end of the discussion between diets, when you feed a fat girl WW Cheesecake sure she adds up he points or whatever the system is and fits the reduced calorie cheesecake into her macros and she loses weight then she moves to India for a job oppurtunity and guess what she needs cheescake bt they dont have WW cheeseake so she eats regular cheescake and puts the fat back on or more. Also can we please mention health here? Carb nite is based around whole foods, whether grain or grass fed they are WHOLE foods with very little chemicals, preservatives and proceessing. WW allows you to have white bread for breakfast, frozen meals for lunch and dinner with some awful proccessed desert. I am an avid opponent of any program like WW, your fat cause you like cake and cookies buying less calorie dense cakes and cookies doesn't solve the problem. (end rant)

Alright, this argument is getting a little too personal so this is my last input. I don't remember reading anything in CNS about eating whole foods and less processed foods so that must be in one of the bio jacked episodes or youtube videos. However, I don't do it because kiefer told me to, I do it because I enjoy whole foods and believe its healthier. Also, lets not get too carried away with calling the people who eat cookies and cakes fat. After all, CNS (and backloading) allow us to eat this way as well.

I agree.  If we keep vehemently attacking programs like WW to the point we are bashing their clients, it just makes us look like douchebags,