Kiefer came out with “Tubecasts” on YouTube about using high glycemic carbs and fruit. So some fruits are better than others, and to be used towards the beginning of the CN. Whole Grains that are low glycemic should be avoided, they do not provide the insulin spike needed on a CN but still not acceptable during an ULC day. The CNS book explains it also some articles worth checking out on the main site.

CBL 1.0 – Chapter 34, page 128 = Carbs from fruit should be zero. Fructose, even fructose in natural whole fruits is metabolized mostly in the liver unlike most carbs. CBL 1.0 – page 220 = Fructose can create unlimited amounts of body fat unlike glucose. The one that can be helpful is ripe brown spotted bananas.Grains with gluten=bad. Many folks have some intolerance to gluten and those that don't still have inflammation form eating gluten that over time will create several bad situations in your body and specifically your brain.Two great reads:http://www.amazon.com/dp/1609614798http://www.amazon.com/Grain-Brain-Surprising-Sugar-Your-Killers/dp/031623480X

So to confirm, ppl who succeed in getting lean WHILE having plenty of fruits, are actually succeeding in spite of it? Coz from all this info, it sounds like people who make fruits a big part of the daily diet aren't likely to see any results.Thing is, there are people out there who do get good results. I was wondering why. When my mother calls me and says I should be eating fruits daily, I don't think I have a "beyond doubt"explanation for why they're no good and that people who lose weight having them are robbing themselves of evenbetter results.Was hoping to see if anyone had insight as to how these "fruity" people stayed lean.I guess the same question can be asked of those who don't do cheat days, or still have lots of wholegrains.How do THEY end up getting results if their method is flawed?

The people who have the most success avoid carbs at an absolute maximum (meaning no fruit or grains in ANY form) during ULC days. And can maintain this for the 5-7 days knowing that on their carbnite, they can get away with a eating some White Bread and a banana. KISS- In this case means during the time you should be eating ULC meals, just eat fat and protein, and you will get great results. Dabbing into making sweets, and eating "little bits" of fruit is compromising the effectiveness of the plan. Even berrys given their sweetness when eaten and sugars digested can have a negative impact on the plan because of raised insulin levels. Even starchy vegetables (carrots for example) can do this. The book details this very clearly, but as said fat and protein. Indulge on CN. Simple.

The people who have the most success avoid carbs at an absolute maximum (meaning no fruit or grains in ANY form) during ULC days. And can maintain this for the 5-7 days knowing that on their carbnite, they can get away with a eating some White Bread and a banana. KISS- In this case means during the time you should be eating ULC meals, just eat fat and protein, and you will get great results. Dabbing into making sweets, and eating "little bits" of fruit is compromising the effectiveness of the plan. Even berrys given their sweetness when eaten and sugars digested can have a negative impact on the plan because of raised insulin levels. Even starchy vegetables (carrots for example) can do this. The book details this very clearly, but as said fat and protein. Indulge on CN. Simple.

Well put! ULC day means ULTRA-LOW carb (not low carb), medium protein and high fat intake. After a few weeks my previous fondness for sweet tasting things has abated to near zero. The other day just for the heck of it I tried a swig of diet coke and almost gagged. Pretty funny how my tastes have changed so dramatically.

On the fructose issue:  You have to be able to understand that we are after glucose from high glycemic sources.  Fructose is something we should just limit.You can't use the argument that fruit is bad because of fructose because we consume things that are MUCH higher in fructose than fruit.  Anything with sugar or high fructose corn syrup is rich in fructose.  So all the cookies, sweets, and fruity pebbles are much higher in fructose than most fruits.Fruit is not good because it is low glycemic.

I agree with all you said. Real fruit is probably the least bad of all the bad fructose sources but none do anything we need for either CNS or CBL with the singular exception of ripe bananas. One of the things Kiefer has said about fructose from any source is it has an UNLIMITED ability to be stored directly as fat unlike other carb sources because of the way it is metabolized mostly in the liver.http://athlete.io/2972/how-to-use-fruit-with-carb-back-loading-and-carb-nite/