5×5 for Destiny bulking – how to have enough volume

[SuperBrainy]

Hi i want to start with destiny bulking to get more strenght. Currently I am doing an modied version of the stronglifts 5×5 workout (3 days a week).Workout A:- Squat 5x5- Bench 5x10 (Cluster)- Rows 5x10 (Cluster)Workout B:- Squat 5x5- Press 5x10 (Cluster)- Deadlift 1x10 (Cluster)My current max Lifts:- Squat 5x5x165 KG (363)- Bench 5x10x70 KG (154) - Press 5x10x45 KG (100)- Deadlift 1x10x110 KG (242)About me:- Age: 25- Weight: 78 KG (171)- Height: 177 cm (5″99- Bodyfat: about 14% (estimated)- Training at home (have a Powerrack and a Bench)- 3 Years ago I had 105 Kg(242) of mainly fatUsual ULC day (rounded): 2500 kcal 20g C 180g P 170g FUsual Training day (rounded)- Pre:  -550 kcal  - 10g C  - 50g P  - 30g F- Post:  - 3600 - 4000 kcal  - 500-600g C  - 150g P  - 100g FUsually if i am below 500g C of carbs on training days i really hungry and tired the next day. Same after an ULC day.I am working as a programmer and have low activity during the day. As you see my Squat is quite good compared to the other lifts. That's why i want to improve my strenght by using destiny bulking especially for the upper body lifts.But i doubt that this is enough volume for destiny bulking.* Cluster:

The athlete takes their 5 repetitions maximum (RM) and does 5 reps and then racks the bar. Resting approx 7-12 seconds (counted out loud by a training partner or spotter), the athlete then un-racks the bar and does another 2-3 repetitions. Upon racking the bar again, another rest of 7-12 seconds is taken, and a final 2-3 repetitions are performed. The goal of the set is to get 10 repetitions total. Generally an athlete will need two to three pauses to accomplish this. The athlete rests 3-5 minutes and repeats 3-5 times. This is an excellent introductory method to cluster training! Here is a summary…

[Mikehr]

Hi i want to start with destiny bulking to get more strenght. Currently I am doing an modied version of the stronglifts 5x5 workout (3 days a week).Workout A:- Squat 5x5- Bench 5x10 (Cluster)- Rows 5x10 (Cluster)Workout B:- Squat 5x5- Press 5x10 (Cluster)- Deadlift 1x10 (Cluster)My current max Lifts:- Squat 5x5x165 KG (363)- Bench 5x10x70 KG (154) - Press 5x10x45 KG (100)- Deadlift 1x10x110 KG (242)About me:- Age: 25- Weight: 78 KG (171)- Height: 177 cm (5″99- Bodyfat: about 14% (estimated)- Training at home (have a Powerrack and a Bench)- 3 Years ago I had 105 Kg(242) of mainly fatUsual ULC day (rounded): 2500 kcal 20g C 180g P 170g FUsual Training day (rounded)- Pre:  -550 kcal  - 10g C  - 50g P  - 30g F- Post:  - 3600 - 4000 kcal  - 500-600g C  - 150g P  - 100g FUsually if i am below 500g C of carbs on training days i really hungry and tired the next day. Same after an ULC day.I am working as a programmer and have low activity during the day. As you see my Squat is quite good compared to the other lifts. That's why i want to improve my strenght by using destiny bulking especially for the upper body lifts.But i doubt that this is enough volume for destiny bulking.* Cluster:

The athlete takes their 5 repetitions maximum (RM) and does 5 reps and then racks the bar. Resting approx 7-12 seconds (counted out loud by a training partner or spotter), the athlete then un-racks the bar and does another 2-3 repetitions. Upon racking the bar again, another rest of 7-12 seconds is taken, and a final 2-3 repetitions are performed. The goal of the set is to get 10 repetitions total. Generally an athlete will need two to three pauses to accomplish this. The athlete rests 3-5 minutes and repeats 3-5 times. This is an excellent introductory method to cluster training! Here is a summary…

Hey density bulking involves carbs every night so no ULC days, and in my opinion you could stick to this 3 day lifting with the volume you have and do really well on cbl sa.I think with DB you should be training 4-5 times a week minimum to put the carbs to good use, but I am a big volume fam so I am biased lol-Mike

[tzanghi]

I think you're programming is messed up.  I'd add assistance to the program before I changed the main lifts.  1×10 on deadlifts is probably not the best idea.  Just do the program but add assistance work to hit volume(e.g., curls, chins, dips).Also, there's no need to go as high as 4500 calories on lifting days really.  I'd lower that to 3000-3500 or w/e number is just high enough for you to progress on the lifts.

[SuperBrainy]

Hi i want to start with destiny bulking to get more strenght. Currently I am doing an modied version of the stronglifts 5x5 workout (3 days a week).Workout A:- Squat 5x5- Bench 5x10 (Cluster)- Rows 5x10 (Cluster)Workout B:- Squat 5x5- Press 5x10 (Cluster)- Deadlift 1x10 (Cluster)My current max Lifts:- Squat 5x5x165 KG (363)- Bench 5x10x70 KG (154) - Press 5x10x45 KG (100)- Deadlift 1x10x110 KG (242)About me:- Age: 25- Weight: 78 KG (171)- Height: 177 cm (5″99- Bodyfat: about 14% (estimated)- Training at home (have a Powerrack and a Bench)- 3 Years ago I had 105 Kg(242) of mainly fatUsual ULC day (rounded): 2500 kcal 20g C 180g P 170g FUsual Training day (rounded)- Pre:  -550 kcal  - 10g C  - 50g P  - 30g F- Post:  - 3600 - 4000 kcal  - 500-600g C  - 150g P  - 100g FUsually if i am below 500g C of carbs on training days i really hungry and tired the next day. Same after an ULC day.I am working as a programmer and have low activity during the day. As you see my Squat is quite good compared to the other lifts. That's why i want to improve my strenght by using destiny bulking especially for the upper body lifts.But i doubt that this is enough volume for destiny bulking.* Cluster:

The athlete takes their 5 repetitions maximum (RM) and does 5 reps and then racks the bar. Resting approx 7-12 seconds (counted out loud by a training partner or spotter), the athlete then un-racks the bar and does another 2-3 repetitions. Upon racking the bar again, another rest of 7-12 seconds is taken, and a final 2-3 repetitions are performed. The goal of the set is to get 10 repetitions total. Generally an athlete will need two to three pauses to accomplish this. The athlete rests 3-5 minutes and repeats 3-5 times. This is an excellent introductory method to cluster training! Here is a summary…

Hey density bulking involves carbs every night so no ULC days, and in my opinion you could stick to this 3 day lifting with the volume you have and do really well on cbl sa.I think with DB you should be training 4-5 times a week minimum to put the carbs to good use, but I am a big volume fam so I am biased lol-Mike

If i eat this less calorines i am Hungry as hell, tired and have no power in Training.

[SuperBrainy]

@tzanghiThe 1x10 deadlift is in Cluster style (5-6rm).I prefer to Lift heavy and thought that Clusters are the best Way to do this.

[tzanghi]

@tzanghiThe 1x10 deadlift is in Cluster style (5-6rm).I prefer to Lift heavy and thought that Clusters are the best Way to do this.

Sets of 5 or below are best for lifting heavy, but too many sets will prevent you from lifting heavy.  For instance, if I pull 3 sets of 5 before I go for 315x5, I can only get 3 or 4 reps, but if I just warm up with singles and doubles up to 315, I can easily make the 5.  With that many "cluster" sets, you're going to end up using less intensity than you would just doing the SL 5x5 program.  Also, deadlifting that much can really put a dent in recovery time once you start lifting heavy enough.So basically, clusters are not the best way to lift heavy, sets of 1-5 are the best way, and not many of them.Again, if you want to increase volume do the SL 5x5 with extra accessory work as it won't require too much recovery but it will increase some hypertrophy.

[SuperBrainy]

@tzanghiThe 1x10 deadlift is in Cluster style (5-6rm).I prefer to Lift heavy and thought that Clusters are the best Way to do this.

Sets of 5 or below are best for lifting heavy, but too many sets will prevent you from lifting heavy.  For instance, if I pull 3 sets of 5 before I go for 315x5, I can only get 3 or 4 reps, but if I just warm up with singles and doubles up to 315, I can easily make the 5.  With that many "cluster" sets, you're going to end up using less intensity than you would just doing the SL 5x5 program.  Also, deadlifting that much can really put a dent in recovery time once you start lifting heavy enough.So basically, clusters are not the best way to lift heavy, sets of 1-5 are the best way, and not many of them.Again, if you want to increase volume do the SL 5x5 with extra accessory work as it won't require too much recovery but it will increase some hypertrophy.

Ok then then i need to drop the clusters and add some assitance exercises.An other Idea which came in my mind is to do 5/3/1 FullBody to increase volume without affecting recovery.Maybe this way:A:5/3/1 Deadlift5x10 Deadlif 60%5/3/1 Press5x10 Press 60%B:5/3/1 Squat5x10 Squat 60%5/3/1 Bench5x10 Bench 60%And maybe some assitance Exercises like Chins, Dips, Rows, Curls, etc..What do you think?

[tzanghi]

@tzanghiThe 1x10 deadlift is in Cluster style (5-6rm).I prefer to Lift heavy and thought that Clusters are the best Way to do this.

Sets of 5 or below are best for lifting heavy, but too many sets will prevent you from lifting heavy.  For instance, if I pull 3 sets of 5 before I go for 315x5, I can only get 3 or 4 reps, but if I just warm up with singles and doubles up to 315, I can easily make the 5.  With that many "cluster" sets, you're going to end up using less intensity than you would just doing the SL 5x5 program.  Also, deadlifting that much can really put a dent in recovery time once you start lifting heavy enough.So basically, clusters are not the best way to lift heavy, sets of 1-5 are the best way, and not many of them.Again, if you want to increase volume do the SL 5x5 with extra accessory work as it won't require too much recovery but it will increase some hypertrophy.

Ok then then i need to drop the clusters and add some assitance exercises.An other Idea which came in my mind is to do 5/3/1 FullBody to increase volume without affecting recovery.Maybe this way:A:5/3/1 Deadlift5x10 Deadlif 60%5/3/1 Press5x10 Press 60%B:5/3/1 Squat5x10 Squat 60%5/3/1 Bench5x10 Bench 60%And maybe some assitance Exercises like Chins, Dips, Rows, Curls, etc..What do you think?

I'm not sure, but that would probably work for a while except your squat is probably too high for that much volume.  The thing is the 5/3/1 weights are generally light for a while, and they only start to pick up intensity after a few cycles, so you might be good for a while.I would prefer the SL 5x5 program + non-barbell assistance, but you could give this 5/3/1 variation a shot.  You're going to be in the gym for like 4 hours a day though haha.

[SuperBrainy]

@tzanghiThe 1x10 deadlift is in Cluster style (5-6rm).I prefer to Lift heavy and thought that Clusters are the best Way to do this.

Sets of 5 or below are best for lifting heavy, but too many sets will prevent you from lifting heavy.  For instance, if I pull 3 sets of 5 before I go for 315x5, I can only get 3 or 4 reps, but if I just warm up with singles and doubles up to 315, I can easily make the 5.  With that many "cluster" sets, you're going to end up using less intensity than you would just doing the SL 5x5 program.  Also, deadlifting that much can really put a dent in recovery time once you start lifting heavy enough.So basically, clusters are not the best way to lift heavy, sets of 1-5 are the best way, and not many of them.Again, if you want to increase volume do the SL 5x5 with extra accessory work as it won't require too much recovery but it will increase some hypertrophy.

Ok then then i need to drop the clusters and add some assitance exercises.An other Idea which came in my mind is to do 5/3/1 FullBody to increase volume without affecting recovery.Maybe this way:A:5/3/1 Deadlift5x10 Deadlif 60%5/3/1 Press5x10 Press 60%B:5/3/1 Squat5x10 Squat 60%5/3/1 Bench5x10 Bench 60%And maybe some assitance Exercises like Chins, Dips, Rows, Curls, etc..What do you think?

I'm not sure, but that would probably work for a while except your squat is probably too high for that much volume.  The thing is the 5/3/1 weights are generally light for a while, and they only start to pick up intensity after a few cycles, so you might be good for a while.I would prefer the SL 5x5 program + non-barbell assistance, but you could give this 5/3/1 variation a shot.  You're going to be in the gym for like 4 hours a day though haha.

4 hours?With out assitance and long rest between sets i don't think i will need more thatn 90 minutes per workout:10 Min WarmUp  20 Min  for 5/3/1 Sets *220 Minutes for the 5x10 Sets *2

[wingman]

@tzanghiThe 1x10 deadlift is in Cluster style (5-6rm).I prefer to Lift heavy and thought that Clusters are the best Way to do this.

Sets of 5 or below are best for lifting heavy, but too many sets will prevent you from lifting heavy.  For instance, if I pull 3 sets of 5 before I go for 315x5, I can only get 3 or 4 reps, but if I just warm up with singles and doubles up to 315, I can easily make the 5.  With that many "cluster" sets, you're going to end up using less intensity than you would just doing the SL 5x5 program.  Also, deadlifting that much can really put a dent in recovery time once you start lifting heavy enough.So basically, clusters are not the best way to lift heavy, sets of 1-5 are the best way, and not many of them.Again, if you want to increase volume do the SL 5x5 with extra accessory work as it won't require too much recovery but it will increase some hypertrophy.

Ok then then i need to drop the clusters and add some assitance exercises.An other Idea which came in my mind is to do 5/3/1 FullBody to increase volume without affecting recovery.Maybe this way:A:5/3/1 Deadlift5x10 Deadlif 60%5/3/1 Press5x10 Press 60%B:5/3/1 Squat5x10 Squat 60%5/3/1 Bench5x10 Bench 60%And maybe some assitance Exercises like Chins, Dips, Rows, Curls, etc..What do you think?

I'm not sure, but that would probably work for a while except your squat is probably too high for that much volume.  The thing is the 5/3/1 weights are generally light for a while, and they only start to pick up intensity after a few cycles, so you might be good for a while.I would prefer the SL 5x5 program + non-barbell assistance, but you could give this 5/3/1 variation a shot.  You're going to be in the gym for like 4 hours a day though haha.

4 hours?With out assitance and long rest between sets i don't think i will need more thatn 90 minutes per workout:10 Min WarmUp  20 Min  for 5/3/1 Sets *220 Minutes for the 5x10 Sets *2

If you can do 5x10 in 20 minutes you're lifting too light.

[SuperBrainy]

@tzanghiThe 1x10 deadlift is in Cluster style (5-6rm).I prefer to Lift heavy and thought that Clusters are the best Way to do this.

Sets of 5 or below are best for lifting heavy, but too many sets will prevent you from lifting heavy.  For instance, if I pull 3 sets of 5 before I go for 315x5, I can only get 3 or 4 reps, but if I just warm up with singles and doubles up to 315, I can easily make the 5.  With that many "cluster" sets, you're going to end up using less intensity than you would just doing the SL 5x5 program.  Also, deadlifting that much can really put a dent in recovery time once you start lifting heavy enough.So basically, clusters are not the best way to lift heavy, sets of 1-5 are the best way, and not many of them.Again, if you want to increase volume do the SL 5x5 with extra accessory work as it won't require too much recovery but it will increase some hypertrophy.

Ok then then i need to drop the clusters and add some assitance exercises.An other Idea which came in my mind is to do 5/3/1 FullBody to increase volume without affecting recovery.Maybe this way:A:5/3/1 Deadlift5x10 Deadlif 60%5/3/1 Press5x10 Press 60%B:5/3/1 Squat5x10 Squat 60%5/3/1 Bench5x10 Bench 60%And maybe some assitance Exercises like Chins, Dips, Rows, Curls, etc..What do you think?

I'm not sure, but that would probably work for a while except your squat is probably too high for that much volume.  The thing is the 5/3/1 weights are generally light for a while, and they only start to pick up intensity after a few cycles, so you might be good for a while.I would prefer the SL 5x5 program + non-barbell assistance, but you could give this 5/3/1 variation a shot.  You're going to be in the gym for like 4 hours a day though haha.

4 hours?With out assitance and long rest between sets i don't think i will need more thatn 90 minutes per workout:10 Min WarmUp  20 Min  for 5/3/1 Sets *220 Minutes for the 5x10 Sets *2

If you can do 5x10 in 20 minutes you're lifting too light.

From what i am read 5x10 Set should be 60% of 1RM. Or should i go higher? about 70 to 75%?

[Hook85]

http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/09/531-and-bodybuilding/here is probably the easiest best way to get best of both worlds you get the volume you are after and the use of 5/3/1 the design and set up of this program by wendler is solid. I think this is a better idea for what it seems you are after rather than a total body smash, which would be difficult to recover from.

[Author]

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