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Does anyone else like alan aragon? On BB.com he calls cbl "comedic".What do you guys think of this?
Can you post the link to BB.com so I can read the thread and get some context please?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=132458043&page=1
Hey alan what's ur opinion on CBLI haven't read the article since it first came out years ago, & I haven't read the book either, so my opinion on it isn't very strong. I vaguely remember him making a ton of hypotheses & a mish-mash of valid & invalid claims about insulin action, & then humorously trademarking dietary behaviors. Generally speaking, the idea that you MUST scoot carbs at the later point in the day in order to effect some magical physiological cascade (& that breakfast carbs are evil) is just funny to me. I haven't read much of Kiefer's stuff, but the little I have read is interesting & he seems like a smart guy; but a bit too imaginative.
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2011/12/14/interviewed-by-wisconsins-polytechnic-university/
The Man — All I gotta say about the Kiefer stuff is LOL 🙂 … He’s just mad that I sided with Lyle, who apparently got him a tad butthurt during a brief debate on his site. In any case, I wish him all the best in 2012. As long as he doesn’t trademark the consumption of carbs, protein, & fat altogether, we should all be fine.Snorkelman — Check your email.Anoop – Thanks right back for the opportunity to dispense important info to the students.All — Thanks very much for taking the time to read the interview & drop some feedback. I agree that this type of content unfortunately does not get enough exposure to general audiences. Students in their early college years can be very impressionable, and too often they’re barraged with BS when it comes to fitness & nutrition-related claims. Some escape the clutches of Brodom, but most don’t.
http://articles.elitefts.com/nutrition/logic-does-not-apply-iii-a-calorie-is-a-calorie/This is the fight with lyle, alan & kiefer.http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=132458043&page=1Alan says
Gimmicky boosheeit is gimmicky.
What I would like to hear, is instead of people like Aragon, and Lyle McDonald saying Kiefers methods are "BS" or "Comedic" actually state why, with a little more specificity.
Read the links I posted...
I really don't care what these guys are saying about Kiefer's theories. I'm on CNS and I can literally see and feel my fat deposits disappearing AND I'm enjoying the process. Kiefer uses foods as drugs. The other guys just think of food as calories and building blocks. They're missing out.
Low-carb is nothing new. CNS is a the ketogenic diet (introduced best by Lyle if you ask me) with a carb re-feed once every 10 days. Do you know what CKD is? The ketogenic diet with a refeed every 7 days or so.CNS is nothing new at all. This thread is also NOT ABOUT CNS ITS ABOUT CBL!CBL is presenting something somewhat new. It really is a modified TKD (Targeted Ketogenic Diet). In TKD you eat low-carb in the morning and carbs pre or post work out depending on which version you choose.So if you do TKD PWO you eat carbs only after lifting, and you go low-carb on off-days. This is very similar to CBL... CBL just has different aims for calories/macros. CBL also emphasize jacking your insulin sky high.
I really don't care what these guys are saying about Kiefer's theories. I'm on CNS and I can literally see and feel my fat deposits disappearing AND I'm enjoying the process. Kiefer uses foods as drugs. The other guys just think of food as calories and building blocks. They're missing out.
Low-carb is nothing new. CNS is a the ketogenic diet (introduced best by Lyle if you ask me) with a carb re-feed once every 10 days. Do you know what CKD is? The ketogenic diet with a refeed every 7 days or so.CNS is nothing new at all. This thread is also NOT ABOUT CNS ITS ABOUT CBL!CBL is presenting something somewhat new. It really is a modified TKD (Targeted Ketogenic Diet). In TKD you eat low-carb in the morning and carbs pre or post work out depending on which version you choose.So if you do TKD PWO you eat carbs only after lifting, and you go low-carb on off-days. This is very similar to CBL... CBL just has different aims for calories/macros. CBL also emphasize jacking your insulin sky high.
To me it seems like CBL is more like the EOD Refeeds that used to be popular a while back. Big thread about it on lyles fourms. Can have many forms, but the basic premise is on weight days, you eat your first two meals, then train, then have a 5 hour window to refeed until bed. On off days, carbs are avoided for the most part and calories are reduced. Sounds a lot like SA to me.
After reading about EOD refeeds I feel like lyle was carb back loading in 2008http://www.lylemcdonald.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5720
realize that I wasn't deliberately testing this formally, it was just something that evolved over time (this was all occurring as I was looking deeply into leptin, man that was a great summer but I digress)so I had been refeeding however often and found data showing tht 5 hours of carb overfeeding can upregulate leptin and i was lifting 3X/week in the evening and I was getting leaner and my refeeds were becoming more frequent anyhow and I ended up with a scheme that looked like thisevery mornin: 1 hour of low intensity cardio (after caffeine yohimbe), walking on the treadmill.weights 3X/week: sadly I don't have details of what I was doing, probably full bodyish, low volume I would guess. might have been an upper/lower split. I honestly don't knowcalories were set at a default of 8 cal/lb (my activity outside of training was sitting in front of the computer so my maintenance was low) divided across 4 daily mealson full diet days (tue/thu/sat/sun), I'd eat 8 cal/lb and do my cardio and abuse a lot of ephedrineon weights days, I'd do my morning cardio and eat my first two diet mealsone hour prior to weights, I'd have some carbs/proteinfrom after weights to bedtime I'd eat a ton of carbs. lots of bread, milk, usually throw in a container of rainbow sherbet. I didn't count calories, I kept fat very low and just ate a lot of carbsI kept getting leaner and fuller. and then I forgot about it completely and went on to other things.now all the cool kids wanna call it IF'ing and modified IF'ing but I WAS THERE FIRST.or something
I ate way more carbs than that and I'd say push it as high as you can go while continuing to get leaner. hell, a small tub of rainbow sherbert alone probably has a couple hundred
EOD refeed just seems like carb-back loading with less details. I guess CBL isn't really a "new idea". Kiefer just took the time to dig up sources that agreed with the results & made a product to sell.
Well, if there are a load of different nutritionists (I use the term loosely) all coming to similar conclusions through independent research, that's great. They all have access to the same research and they're all studying it at the same time with the same goals in mind. Is it really so strange that they created similar programs?
I really don't care what these guys are saying about Kiefer's theories. I'm on CNS and I can literally see and feel my fat deposits disappearing AND I'm enjoying the process.
This is all that matters to me. Everything else is bullshit! Great post Fairy.
Thank you Tlfoxy 🙂
Well, if there are a load of different nutritionists (I use the term loosely) all coming to similar conclusions through independent research, that's great. They all have access to the same research and they're all studying it at the same time with the same goals in mind. Is it really so strange that they created similar programs?
What is this in reference to specifically?
I really don't care what these guys are saying about Kiefer's theories. I'm on CNS and I can literally see and feel my fat deposits disappearing AND I'm enjoying the process.
This is all that matters to me. Everything else is bullshit! Great post Fairy.
We are in a thread about CBL which is in the sub-forum focused on CBL.Your post is completely off-topic and to be honest its worthless...
I really don't care what these guys are saying about Kiefer's theories. I'm on CNS and I can literally see and feel my fat deposits disappearing AND I'm enjoying the process.
This is all that matters to me. Everything else is bullshit! Great post Fairy.
We are in a thread about CBL which is in the sub-forum focused on CBL.Your post is completely off-topic and to be honest its worthless...
Actually it is on topic... Aragon and McDonald are discrediting Kiefer and his theories. "McDonald says that Kiefer is wrong 99% of the time" - that was posted somewhere here or a different thread. So therefore, what I posted is exactly the point. CNS / CBL and the gains people have had is exactly the point. So, my point is, let the scientists and the so called experts mouth off and call each other out all they want, for whatever reasons they may have. Results are results... Success is success. Everything else is bullshit. So, you can argue all you want - nothing else matters then personal progress.
Like Tlfoxy says, I'm sure people on CBL feel the same – it works, so who cares what that guy says? The point is transferable
Results are results... Success is success. Everything else is bullshit. So, you can argue all you want - nothing else matters then personal progress.
+1Person results speak for themselves. Despite the he said / she said that goes on in these fueds, if something works for me, I will stick to it. Nothing is one-size-fits-all, and not everything is for everybody.I've had success with CBL, and I've also had success with CNS (which I am currently running).Furthermore, Fairy has a right to her opinion above, and no one has a right to tell her that what she has to say or what she feels is worthless. That is insulting and unfair, and not how we handle things on these forums.Cory
I really don't care what these guys are saying about Kiefer's theories. I'm on CNS and I can literally see and feel my fat deposits disappearing AND I'm enjoying the process.
This is all that matters to me. Everything else is bullshit! Great post Fairy.
We are in a thread about CBL which is in the sub-forum focused on CBL.Your post is completely off-topic and to be honest its worthless...
Actually it is on topic... Aragon and McDonald are discrediting Kiefer and his theories. "McDonald says that Kiefer is wrong 99% of the time" - that was posted somewhere here or a different thread. So therefore, what I posted is exactly the point. CNS / CBL and the gains people have had is exactly the point. So, my point is, let the scientists and the so called experts mouth off and call each other out all they want, for whatever reasons they may have. Results are results... Success is success. Everything else is bullshit. So, you can argue all you want - nothing else matters then personal progress.
+1Also, it seems to me that there is a few forum members on this thread who are intent on bashing Kiefer and his diets. If you have a dissenting opinion, then share it, but don't get pissed off that other people like Kiefer's diet.
If you have a dissenting opinion, then share it, but don't get pissed off that other people like Kiefer's diet.
Some people are full of opinions, and spend more time trying to reason with why something WON'T work rather than testing it out, and seeing if it actually does.If something doesn't work for you, fair enough. Have the courtesy to move on to something else, and not stir up unnecessary trouble on the forums, or go about insulting its members.Cory
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