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I don't think the protein is the problem. You might not need that much or even half that, but I doubt it's making you fat. Two points of ice cream and a med Pizza! That will make you fat. You need to keep it low fat on carb nite. Maybe a couple of slices of pizza and a bit of Ice cream, and make sure that is post workout towards end of carb nite. Also your body fat has to be about 24% at your current weight so you should get down to the recommended 15% before finishing with carb nite.
It'll make you fat if you go about it the wrong way. That's the wrong thing to say and mindset to have. You do not need to keep it low fat while on CN, only on the beginning. You can have a pizza towards the end but what you consume throughout the Nite can be overboard. Is it necessary to consume a couple bowls of cereal with a box of pancake mix along with pizza and ice cream? No. You could do a nice decent civilized dinner. Later have another dinner or graze on some desserts or savory foods you want. A week without carbs then a evening with won't make you all of sudden fat. What you do during the week contributes. Mark Bell did come out with a Supertraining.TV video about his journey with CNS. He wanted to drop a few pounds, and gave the recommendation of removing junk at first then reintroducing it later. Like a candy bar. But think about it, store bought processed foods are normally the culprit to over eating and progress stallment with some folks. Make your own stuff and you control the amounts as well as the ingredients. Just my thoughts.
Skimmed this thread. I wanted to dip in and (+1) Tex first off.Second the whole argument that fat "Increases an insulin spike'' while I really will never agree with this, I will say that so does Leucine, Dextrose, and Whey Hydro. So why "supplement" a fatty meal and justify it as increasing an insulin spoke when you could and would get a better spike with something that doesnt have fat?I really think the reason people fail on CN is because they loose focus on the fact that we are targeting a hormonal effect for optimal fat loss. Not justifying a once a week binge. Start low fat fat, and at the very end of the night you CAN have some fat. I always found it better to keep it low fat throughout the night. But if any fat was involved it was always the LAST thing that I ate. I also agree with the recommendations made to lower protein on ULC days, but I also think that the fat should be lowered as well. 2600kcal a day is probably to much at least to start. .75/1 with protein being .8-1g per lb of lean mass. This will certainly lower our total daily intake, and will allow for a larger intake on CN while still getting results.Just my thoughts...
6'4'', 289lbs. I am eating 2600 Calories a day. 195 g of Pro (which I think is too low) and 175g of Fat.
At the very least fat intake should be equal to protein intake, if not higher. Recently, Kiefer has mentioned that even at a certain threshold(regardless of the fat:protein ratio), protein intake may halt ketogenesis.Are you working out? What is your activity level like? You may be able to reduce your protein intake depending on that. Even if you are working out though, you can probably still drop it a bit. What's your body fat percentage like? This can help determine protein needs.Remember, being ketogenic will help protect muscle tissue from being used for energy in a carb depleted state. Thus, needing to scarf down a lot of protein is not necessary to preserve muscle, assuming you are ketogenic of course.
This is not necessarily true. There are quite a few people that had more success with lower fat and higher protein. Big Tex is someone who comes to mind.Try the low protein high fat protocol, but also the lower fat protocol maybe something to try to. I know Kiefer has not been promoting the .5 g/lb of fat and the 1 g/lb of protein lately, but he has before and many people saw results instantly with that.Just something to keep in mind. In my personal opinion, ketogenesis isn't everything.
Agreed, keto isn't everything. If you want to lose weight, the main thing is being in an energy deficit.I just wanted to chime in because like Tex, I too prefer the higher protein, lower fat protocol. But my reason for this is because I have an insane appetite and the higher protein keeps me full. In saying that though, my progress has not been slowed my any means. The fat/protein ratio is probably highly individual but I wouldn't go under .5g of fat per gram of protein consumed during a ULC period.
Wouldn't there be more risk of muscle loss if losing weight/in a deficit and not in ketogenesis though?
If your protein is moderate, and fat is high, you should be. Energy deficit or not. I gained 3lbs of lean mass on CN and started with only 8% BF. So muscle loss shouldnt be an issue. Esp if your regulating how much protein your taking in. (You dont need as much as you think.)
6'4'', 289lbs. I am eating 2600 Calories a day. 195 g of Pro (which I think is too low) and 175g of Fat.
At the very least fat intake should be equal to protein intake, if not higher. Recently, Kiefer has mentioned that even at a certain threshold(regardless of the fat:protein ratio), protein intake may halt ketogenesis.Are you working out? What is your activity level like? You may be able to reduce your protein intake depending on that. Even if you are working out though, you can probably still drop it a bit. What's your body fat percentage like? This can help determine protein needs.Remember, being ketogenic will help protect muscle tissue from being used for energy in a carb depleted state. Thus, needing to scarf down a lot of protein is not necessary to preserve muscle, assuming you are ketogenic of course.
This is not necessarily true. There are quite a few people that had more success with lower fat and higher protein. Big Tex is someone who comes to mind.Try the low protein high fat protocol, but also the lower fat protocol maybe something to try to. I know Kiefer has not been promoting the .5 g/lb of fat and the 1 g/lb of protein lately, but he has before and many people saw results instantly with that.Just something to keep in mind. In my personal opinion, ketogenesis isn't everything.
Agreed, keto isn't everything. If you want to lose weight, the main thing is being in an energy deficit.I just wanted to chime in because like Tex, I too prefer the higher protein, lower fat protocol. But my reason for this is because I have an insane appetite and the higher protein keeps me full. In saying that though, my progress has not been slowed my any means. The fat/protein ratio is probably highly individual but I wouldn't go under .5g of fat per gram of protein consumed during a ULC period.
Wouldn't there be more risk of muscle loss if losing weight/in a deficit and not in ketogenesis though?
You are still in ketogenesis with that ratio, as 55% of calories are still coming from fat. Like I said many people, like Tex and myself, just don't do well on really high fat intakes.
It'll make you fat if you go about it the wrong way. That's the wrong thing to say and mindset to have. You do not need to keep it low fat while on CN, only on the beginning. You can have a pizza towards the end but what you consume throughout the Nite can be overboard. Is it necessary to consume a couple bowls of cereal with a box of pancake mix along with pizza and ice cream? No. You could do a nice decent civilized dinner. Later have another dinner or graze on some desserts or savory foods you want. A week without carbs then a evening with won't make you all of sudden fat. What you do during the week contributes. Mark Bell did come out with a Supertraining.TV video about his journey with CNS. He wanted to drop a few pounds, and gave the recommendation of removing junk at first then reintroducing it later. Like a candy bar. But think about it, store bought processed foods are normally the culprit to over eating and progress stallment with some folks. Make your own stuff and you control the amounts as well as the ingredients. Just my thoughts.
Ok that's a fair point. I think I might of come across too harsh there. What I am saying is that I think it would be better to concentrate more on the lower fat carbs and have the junk at the end. The original post was detailing a carb nite of sushi rolls, two pints of ice cream, and a medium pizza and he wasn't happy with his results. Maybe trying something else would get better results. That's what I've found. There are of course other factors to consider here like training intensity, and raising fats etc when on LC.
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