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Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum and I just had some questions… I apologize in advance for the long post.I have not yet purchased a copy of CBL (student, just don't have money right now), but I was wondering about how the protocol of density bulking would apply to a 140 lb male (me). As another detail, I'm not too lean in the first place (prob between 15-20% BF) in the sense that I can't see much abdominal definition but I feel that may just be that I'm too skinny and not carrying enough muscle mass. From what I've read, I would not be able to backload as many carbs, but based on a prep phase loss of approximately 5 lb, what should my backload include?This is an example of my typical day (density bulking, so eating this pretty much every day):wake up: coffee with few tablespoons of heavy whipping cream, occasionally coconut oilfew hours later or whenever hungry: few slices of bacon, 3 eggs, mushroomsif still hungry again, snack: almonds, pepperoni/salami, avocadopre-workout: coffee with cream againtrain (usually around 1 hour)1 hour PWO: 50-60g protein shake, 50-80g dextrose1 hour or so later: half a pizza, few sugar cookies, ice cream sandwich, maybe handful of chips (takes me a good hour to 2 hours to get all this food down)totals: I don't really count fat/protein to be honest, but I try to keep the fat high in the AM and don't count PWO, carbs ~ 250-300gIf anyone could critique my meal plan and help me out, that would be great. I realized it is actually hard for me to exceed the 300g mark for carbs just because I seem to have a small appetite (explains why I'm 140), but I'm not entirely sure if it's ideal for me to go higher than 300g. Does anyone have tips in terms of more efficient foods for higher carb intake? I'd rather not drink dextrose all night.Again, I realize I don't have the book (quite unfortunate) and I am probably missing many details, but I would really appreciate it if you guys could educate me on anything I could have misunderstood here.
I am a newbie but with 15-20% bf I would not do DB just yet. Maybe SA to start with. And I would start counting macros so you can adjust if needed
Your diet looks fantastic. Just make sure you are eating enough during the day. I also reccomend the pre-workout shake (with 10g of whey) in the book. You don't really have to count anything, just stay under 30 g of carbs during the day. As far as backloading, just eat what you can eat. I'd stick to baked goods if you are having trouble slamming carbs.Also I suggest getting yourself some leucine and creatine.
Look at it this way. You weigh 140 so even if you want to MAINTAIN that weight the chart in the book says you should be eating around 490g's of carbs. However, I'm assuming you want to gain weight so it's pretty simple EAT MORE FOOD! I'm not trying to be mean at all, but seriously, eating more can only help you in this regard. Enjoy yourself, and slam the carbs PWO, it will only help 🙂
Thanks for the responses!@zewski: I'm trying to get in more carbs, but it's just honestly hard to slam down the amount I need to go overboard. What does a typical backload look like for you?@gritty: Good to know there are others like me trying out the protocol.@ibobland08: I'm using Body Fortress whey PWO and it has creatine/leucine mixed in already. Is this enough or should I go for separate supplements?@baku16: I understand the issue of bulking being less than optimal without being around 10% BF, but my reasoning is that if I just add some muscle mass now, it will help to decrease that percentage regardless especially since I am skinny with a fairly small frame. Adding muscle mass (or even fat) would result in a more dramatic change for me than it would for a person of larger stature. If I'm wrong on this, please correct me.As a general question for you guys, what would you think of drinking homemade lemonade sweetened with dextrose throughout the night to supplement a good 100-200g of carbs apart from my PWO shake that already has ~60g of dextrose? Granted, this would be spread out in at least 5-10 glasses of lemonade, but I'm just curious as to the effect of consuming dextrose in this quantity.
Look at it this way. You weigh 140 so even if you want to MAINTAIN that weight the chart in the book says you should be eating around 490g's of carbs. However, I'm assuming you want to gain weight so it's pretty simple EAT MORE FOOD! I'm not trying to be mean at all, but seriously, eating more can only help you in this regard. Enjoy yourself, and slam the carbs PWO, it will only help 🙂
No he does not need to eat more than 490 g of carbs to gain weight. I went from 172 to 175 (lost bodyfat on top of it) and I don't even think I ate had 400 g of carbs in my backloads.@skinnykid13 I would do Density Bulk if I were you, but you need to change your diet if that is the case. Also I would still buy leucine and creatine, because I highly doubt the leucine and creatine content in your whey protein is significant. Also whey protein naturally has leucine in it which may be what you are seeing on the product label. I mean added leucine.
Oh the homemade lemonade sweetened with dextrose sounds awesome, I'd say go for it, the thing I would be careful with is the bloat/water weight. By eating carbs and drinking liquids you can fill up fast and be uncomfortable. Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
ibobland08, how exactly should I change my diet to do DB?
ibobland08, how exactly should I change my diet to do DB?
Before I reccomend Density Bulk, answer me this question? How long have you been lifting weights? If it is less than 6 consecutive months of regular training, you don't need to do Density Bulk. Stick to Strength Accumulation.Your current diet looks like a Strength Accumulation. There are two main differences between Density Bulk and Strength Accumulation:1. Density Bulk you are to eat frequently when you are ULC2. Density Bulk you are to backload every nightThis is what you will want to change in your diet1. Drink a protein shake with 10g of whey and a tablespoon of coconut oil along with coffee immediately when you wake up. You can have cream here if you want too.2. Have breakfast an hour later.3. Eat least every three hours until you train. Doesn't have to be full meals just eat something.4. A half an hour before you train have 20 g of whey, 1.5 tablspoons of coconut oil, and 10 g of creatine.5. Keep your post-workout shake the same except add 5 g of leucine and 10 g of creatine.6. (Optional, but highly reccomended) When you backload have a protein shake with ~25 g of protein and 10 g of creatine, 5 g of leucine, and 50 g of dextrose. You will probably want to have two of these.7. Eat as much as you can, but you don't have to eat until you are sick.During the ULC phase I would eat at least 100 g of protein and 100 g of fat. This includes the morning and pre-workout shakes. Total protein does not have to be higher than 1.3 g/lb or 182 g in your case.As far as training goes I would do a 5 day a week split. I highly reccomend Shockwave Heavy Duty. HIIT is optional, but I would do it. If you have any other questions let me know. The supplements are obviously optional, but I do reccomend them.
I appreciate the extremely informative response ibobland. To answer your question, I lifted seriously last summer for approximately 10 weeks or so (3 days a week) on Starting Strength. However, I was very inconsistent (maybe 1-2 times a week) during the school year since then because I joined a dragon boat team (similar to rowing, but just one side of the boat). I've restarted the program and I'm currently on it now. If it helps, here are the numbers for my lifts along with set x rep scheme.squat (below parallel): 3x5 @ 205 lbbench: 3x5 @ 115 lbpress: 3x5 @ 85 lbdeadlift: 1x5 @ 235 lbpower clean: 5x3 @ 95 lbSo, I'm unsure as to whether or not this counts as less than 6 months of training, but I'll change up my diet to include your recommendations and purchase some creatine/leucine. However, I'm going to stick to Starting Strength as I've seen major gains on the program and I am lifting with more of a powerlifting mindset rather than a bodybuilding one in order to have some strength transfer to basketball/vertical jump.I must ask though, what is the reasoning behind not doing a density bulk if only having trained for fewer than 6 months?
Because you still have room to gain strength/lean mass without needing a large calorie surplus. Doing DB would only make you a bit fatter in the long run.
Yea given your experience you'll still be able to see great strength, and most likely mass, gains from SAibobland is certainly the more informed guy here, so I'd go with his rx's, however keep in mind that everyone needs to critique the diet for themselves. Take suggestions, test them, assess, then change things if need be.
Thanks for all the great advice guys. I do have one last thing to ask. I know you're supposed to go ULC on off days for SA, but from now on, I'll be hitting new PR's on Starting Strength basically every day that I train (MWF). So, would it be beneficial for me to just backload on all days or at least keep the off-day backloads smaller to prepare for the next day's workout?
I agree with zewski and stiffmeister. Since you just started regularly training, you do not need to do Density Bulk. Just stick to what you were doing and use the plan I gave you for future reference.I am not familiar with Starting Strength, but I do recommend doing some assistance work, especially if you said that you want to gain muscle. It will help your main lifts and your strength. It will also help you achieve muscular balance, which is very important for injury prevention and posture. For instance from the lifts you are doing, you are not getting much bicep work, which is a very common muscle to tear, especially when doing deadlifts. Also you are lacking lat and upper back work, which will help all of your lifts. So add some assistance exercises.
I think I phrased my question incorrectly. I meant, would it be detrimental to me to include a small backload every off day? I know it's not optimal for SA, but if I play basketball occasionally on off days, I feel this may be necessary in order to ensure success at my next workout.In terms of exercises, starting strength is comprised solely of compound lifts: squat, bench, deadlift, standing military press, and power clean. I also add in weighted dips/chins for assistance work.
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