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While it's true that storing body fat is impossible for up to an hour only, in chapter 38 Kiefer clearly states that 30 mins to an hour after the PWO shake is the time to start the back-load. He also talks about eating large amounts of carbs in successive meals. Not only that but there's also the late-night training customization where you should eat prior to the workout simply because of the lack of time to back-load afterward; that wouldn't be needed if you were meant to have all of your carbs within an hour.
Pwo shake with banana at around 4.30 then first hit of carbs an hour later, low fat lollies or like, then BIG meal with carbs and lucine hydrolysate shake, then I graze constantly on carbs after main meal for another 2-3 hours, with last whey shake about ten thirty. Go about five hours and about 600g of carbs. Do this three nights a week.Try and keep all meals or carbs sources at less than 10g per 100 of fat. As soon as I add a lot of fat to back load nights I put on fat and get softer.
While it's true that storing body fat is impossible for up to an hour only, in chapter 38 Kiefer clearly states that 30 mins to an hour after the PWO shake is the time to start the back-load. He also talks about eating large amounts of carbs in successive meals. Not only that but there's also the late-night training customization where you should eat prior to the workout simply because of the lack of time to back-load afterward; that wouldn't be needed if you were meant to have all of your carbs within an hour.
I think this has more to do with the fact that it's generally meant as you're going to train, get a shake, and go to bed. Thus you don't have time to allow insulin levels to return to baseline before nodding off, thus your interrupting/delaying a GH spike from your sleep.I still say it's all highly individual and do what works best for you. I'm running an experiment now where I do my whole backload within 60-90min of my workout, just because this thread sparked my curiosity. I am slightly dubious, however, because despite the concept that it's "impossible" to store body fat in that 60-ish minute PWO period, what if I eat a huge carb meal at 45 min.. It's not like that food is instantly digested and shuttled around. Chances are I'm not going to be getting much from that until the 75-120min time frame, thus putting me outside of that window.. I'm wondering if there could be a "grandfathering" effect that as long as you keep insulin highly-elevated, you can kind of prolong that muscle anabolic window. If this is what happens, it makes sense why the general rule of thumb seems to be a 2-4hr backload. I just rambled and I dunno if it made sense. It does in my head though. That's good enough, right?
While it's true that storing body fat is impossible for up to an hour only, in chapter 38 Kiefer clearly states that 30 mins to an hour after the PWO shake is the time to start the back-load. He also talks about eating large amounts of carbs in successive meals. Not only that but there's also the late-night training customization where you should eat prior to the workout simply because of the lack of time to back-load afterward; that wouldn't be needed if you were meant to have all of your carbs within an hour.
I think this has more to do with the fact that it's generally meant as you're going to train, get a shake, and go to bed. Thus you don't have time to allow insulin levels to return to baseline before nodding off, thus your interrupting/delaying a GH spike from your sleep.I still say it's all highly individual and do what works best for you. I'm running an experiment now where I do my whole backload within 60-90min of my workout, just because this thread sparked my curiosity. I am slightly dubious, however, because despite the concept that it's "impossible" to store body fat in that 60-ish minute PWO period, what if I eat a huge carb meal at 45 min.. It's not like that food is instantly digested and shuttled around. Chances are I'm not going to be getting much from that until the 75-120min time frame, thus putting me outside of that window.. I'm wondering if there could be a "grandfathering" effect that as long as you keep insulin highly-elevated, you can kind of prolong that muscle anabolic window. If this is what happens, it makes sense why the general rule of thumb seems to be a 2-4hr backload. I just rambled and I dunno if it made sense. It does in my head though. That's good enough, right?
That's only in Density Bulking that you eat carbs before training.By the way, you bring up a good point about the "impossible to store fat within 60 min PWO". That does not mean you can eat whatever in that time period. It means the nutrients available for storage in that time period will not be stored as fat.
While it's true that storing body fat is impossible for up to an hour only, in chapter 38 Kiefer clearly states that 30 mins to an hour after the PWO shake is the time to start the back-load. He also talks about eating large amounts of carbs in successive meals. Not only that but there's also the late-night training customization where you should eat prior to the workout simply because of the lack of time to back-load afterward; that wouldn't be needed if you were meant to have all of your carbs within an hour.
I think this has more to do with the fact that it's generally meant as you're going to train, get a shake, and go to bed. Thus you don't have time to allow insulin levels to return to baseline before nodding off, thus your interrupting/delaying a GH spike from your sleep.I still say it's all highly individual and do what works best for you. I'm running an experiment now where I do my whole backload within 60-90min of my workout, just because this thread sparked my curiosity. I am slightly dubious, however, because despite the concept that it's "impossible" to store body fat in that 60-ish minute PWO period, what if I eat a huge carb meal at 45 min.. It's not like that food is instantly digested and shuttled around. Chances are I'm not going to be getting much from that until the 75-120min time frame, thus putting me outside of that window.. I'm wondering if there could be a "grandfathering" effect that as long as you keep insulin highly-elevated, you can kind of prolong that muscle anabolic window. If this is what happens, it makes sense why the general rule of thumb seems to be a 2-4hr backload. I just rambled and I dunno if it made sense. It does in my head though. That's good enough, right?
That's only in Density Bulking that you eat carbs before training.By the way, you bring up a good point about the "impossible to store fat within 60 min PWO". That does not mean you can eat whatever in that time period. It means the nutrients available for storage in that time period will not be stored as fat.
+1, and remember that Keifer repeatedly has stated "Don't eat like a fat kid". I always take that to mean don't go nuts and only eat what you need. After a good squat workout I need more carbs than after bench day. Eat what you need not what you are craving.RB
While it's true that storing body fat is impossible for up to an hour only, in chapter 38 Kiefer clearly states that 30 mins to an hour after the PWO shake is the time to start the back-load. He also talks about eating large amounts of carbs in successive meals. Not only that but there's also the late-night training customization where you should eat prior to the workout simply because of the lack of time to back-load afterward; that wouldn't be needed if you were meant to have all of your carbs within an hour.
I think this has more to do with the fact that it's generally meant as you're going to train, get a shake, and go to bed. Thus you don't have time to allow insulin levels to return to baseline before nodding off, thus your interrupting/delaying a GH spike from your sleep.I still say it's all highly individual and do what works best for you. I'm running an experiment now where I do my whole backload within 60-90min of my workout, just because this thread sparked my curiosity. I am slightly dubious, however, because despite the concept that it's "impossible" to store body fat in that 60-ish minute PWO period, what if I eat a huge carb meal at 45 min.. It's not like that food is instantly digested and shuttled around. Chances are I'm not going to be getting much from that until the 75-120min time frame, thus putting me outside of that window.. I'm wondering if there could be a "grandfathering" effect that as long as you keep insulin highly-elevated, you can kind of prolong that muscle anabolic window. If this is what happens, it makes sense why the general rule of thumb seems to be a 2-4hr backload. I just rambled and I dunno if it made sense. It does in my head though. That's good enough, right?
That's only in Density Bulking that you eat carbs before training.By the way, you bring up a good point about the "impossible to store fat within 60 min PWO". That does not mean you can eat whatever in that time period. It means the nutrients available for storage in that time period will not be stored as fat.
+1, and remember that Keifer repeatedly has stated "Don't eat like a fat kid". I always take that to mean don't go nuts and only eat what you need. After a good squat workout I need more carbs than after bench day. Eat what you need not what you are craving.RB
+1 Just because you might be able to eat a tub of ben & jerrys and be within your limits for the day, doesnt mean you should. On the feeding window- I think that keeping it within the two hours is just a "Better Safe than Sorry" protocol. If you cant, or for what ever reason dont want to, and it works for you go for it. I dont see how you can train at 6pm, eat until 10, then GH doesn't kick in until at very earliest midnight, more than likely later than that. Than for the most of us we have to wake up early in the AM. So really your hurting yourself all over by extending feeding window in this case.
While it's true that storing body fat is impossible for up to an hour only, in chapter 38 Kiefer clearly states that 30 mins to an hour after the PWO shake is the time to start the back-load. He also talks about eating large amounts of carbs in successive meals. Not only that but there's also the late-night training customization where you should eat prior to the workout simply because of the lack of time to back-load afterward; that wouldn't be needed if you were meant to have all of your carbs within an hour.
I think this has more to do with the fact that it's generally meant as you're going to train, get a shake, and go to bed. Thus you don't have time to allow insulin levels to return to baseline before nodding off, thus your interrupting/delaying a GH spike from your sleep.I still say it's all highly individual and do what works best for you. I'm running an experiment now where I do my whole backload within 60-90min of my workout, just because this thread sparked my curiosity. I am slightly dubious, however, because despite the concept that it's "impossible" to store body fat in that 60-ish minute PWO period, what if I eat a huge carb meal at 45 min.. It's not like that food is instantly digested and shuttled around. Chances are I'm not going to be getting much from that until the 75-120min time frame, thus putting me outside of that window.. I'm wondering if there could be a "grandfathering" effect that as long as you keep insulin highly-elevated, you can kind of prolong that muscle anabolic window. If this is what happens, it makes sense why the general rule of thumb seems to be a 2-4hr backload. I just rambled and I dunno if it made sense. It does in my head though. That's good enough, right?
That's only in Density Bulking that you eat carbs before training.By the way, you bring up a good point about the "impossible to store fat within 60 min PWO". That does not mean you can eat whatever in that time period. It means the nutrients available for storage in that time period will not be stored as fat.
+1, and remember that Keifer repeatedly has stated "Don't eat like a fat kid". I always take that to mean don't go nuts and only eat what you need. After a good squat workout I need more carbs than after bench day. Eat what you need not what you are craving.RB
+1 Just because you might be able to eat a tub of ben & jerrys and be within your limits for the day, doesnt mean you should. On the feeding window- I think that keeping it within the two hours is just a "Better Safe than Sorry" protocol. If you cant, or for what ever reason dont want to, and it works for you go for it. I dont see how you can train at 6pm, eat until 10, then GH doesn't kick in until at very earliest midnight, more than likely later than that. Than for the most of us we have to wake up early in the AM. So really your hurting yourself all over by extending feeding window in this case.
You don't release growth hormone until you go to sleep.
While it's true that storing body fat is impossible for up to an hour only, in chapter 38 Kiefer clearly states that 30 mins to an hour after the PWO shake is the time to start the back-load. He also talks about eating large amounts of carbs in successive meals. Not only that but there's also the late-night training customization where you should eat prior to the workout simply because of the lack of time to back-load afterward; that wouldn't be needed if you were meant to have all of your carbs within an hour.
I think this has more to do with the fact that it's generally meant as you're going to train, get a shake, and go to bed. Thus you don't have time to allow insulin levels to return to baseline before nodding off, thus your interrupting/delaying a GH spike from your sleep.I still say it's all highly individual and do what works best for you. I'm running an experiment now where I do my whole backload within 60-90min of my workout, just because this thread sparked my curiosity. I am slightly dubious, however, because despite the concept that it's "impossible" to store body fat in that 60-ish minute PWO period, what if I eat a huge carb meal at 45 min.. It's not like that food is instantly digested and shuttled around. Chances are I'm not going to be getting much from that until the 75-120min time frame, thus putting me outside of that window.. I'm wondering if there could be a "grandfathering" effect that as long as you keep insulin highly-elevated, you can kind of prolong that muscle anabolic window. If this is what happens, it makes sense why the general rule of thumb seems to be a 2-4hr backload. I just rambled and I dunno if it made sense. It does in my head though. That's good enough, right?
That's only in Density Bulking that you eat carbs before training.By the way, you bring up a good point about the "impossible to store fat within 60 min PWO". That does not mean you can eat whatever in that time period. It means the nutrients available for storage in that time period will not be stored as fat.
+1, and remember that Keifer repeatedly has stated "Don't eat like a fat kid". I always take that to mean don't go nuts and only eat what you need. After a good squat workout I need more carbs than after bench day. Eat what you need not what you are craving.RB
+1 Just because you might be able to eat a tub of ben & jerrys and be within your limits for the day, doesnt mean you should. On the feeding window- I think that keeping it within the two hours is just a "Better Safe than Sorry" protocol. If you cant, or for what ever reason dont want to, and it works for you go for it. I dont see how you can train at 6pm, eat until 10, then GH doesn't kick in until at very earliest midnight, more than likely later than that. Than for the most of us we have to wake up early in the AM. So really your hurting yourself all over by extending feeding window in this case.
You don't release growth hormone until you go to sleep.
Except in the morning when ghrelin peaks..But I think CBach knows that. I think he was pointing out you'd be shorting yourself sleeping time where GH could be secreted and used most effectively by having such a long window, then going to bed right away.
I've cut my window to 2 hours or so. No concrete results just yet, but I'm MUCH less bloated the next day and the day after (only have 2 to 3 backloads a week)
I'll trying to get my carbs within 2 hours but I think I going to hurt my stomach. lucky I'm on CBL SA, its may be easy for me. good luck to people who on CBL DB
While it's true that storing body fat is impossible for up to an hour only, in chapter 38 Kiefer clearly states that 30 mins to an hour after the PWO shake is the time to start the back-load. He also talks about eating large amounts of carbs in successive meals. Not only that but there's also the late-night training customization where you should eat prior to the workout simply because of the lack of time to back-load afterward; that wouldn't be needed if you were meant to have all of your carbs within an hour.
I think this has more to do with the fact that it's generally meant as you're going to train, get a shake, and go to bed. Thus you don't have time to allow insulin levels to return to baseline before nodding off, thus your interrupting/delaying a GH spike from your sleep.I still say it's all highly individual and do what works best for you. I'm running an experiment now where I do my whole backload within 60-90min of my workout, just because this thread sparked my curiosity. I am slightly dubious, however, because despite the concept that it's "impossible" to store body fat in that 60-ish minute PWO period, what if I eat a huge carb meal at 45 min.. It's not like that food is instantly digested and shuttled around. Chances are I'm not going to be getting much from that until the 75-120min time frame, thus putting me outside of that window.. I'm wondering if there could be a "grandfathering" effect that as long as you keep insulin highly-elevated, you can kind of prolong that muscle anabolic window. If this is what happens, it makes sense why the general rule of thumb seems to be a 2-4hr backload. I just rambled and I dunno if it made sense. It does in my head though. That's good enough, right?
That's only in Density Bulking that you eat carbs before training.By the way, you bring up a good point about the "impossible to store fat within 60 min PWO". That does not mean you can eat whatever in that time period. It means the nutrients available for storage in that time period will not be stored as fat.
+1, and remember that Keifer repeatedly has stated "Don't eat like a fat kid". I always take that to mean don't go nuts and only eat what you need. After a good squat workout I need more carbs than after bench day. Eat what you need not what you are craving.RB
+1 Just because you might be able to eat a tub of ben & jerrys and be within your limits for the day, doesnt mean you should. On the feeding window- I think that keeping it within the two hours is just a "Better Safe than Sorry" protocol. If you cant, or for what ever reason dont want to, and it works for you go for it. I dont see how you can train at 6pm, eat until 10, then GH doesn't kick in until at very earliest midnight, more than likely later than that. Than for the most of us we have to wake up early in the AM. So really your hurting yourself all over by extending feeding window in this case.
You don't release growth hormone until you go to sleep.
Except in the morning when ghrelin peaks..But I think CBach knows that. I think he was pointing out you'd be shorting yourself sleeping time where GH could be secreted and used most effectively by having such a long window, then going to bed right away.
Thats exactly what I mean, not only are you most likely getting less sleep, but you insulin levels have to return to baseline as well. So for example if me and another CBL member both train until 6pm. Start our BL at the same time, but mine goes untill around 8, and his(or hers, respectively) goes until 10. And we both go to sleep at lets say 1030. My GH is working much sooner than the other CBL member at this point, because my insulin has returned to baseline, and Im asleep. As where the other persons wont be turning to baseline for AT LEAST another hour. Likely a little longer. So im just stating that having a smaller window in most cases is getting the most out of the program in my eyes. a
My thing about this is, if I stop eating that earlier then my 12hr fast mark is still under my 3 hours after I wake up fast. So I guess Ill just push that back to a 13 or 14 hr fast.
My thing about this is, if I stop eating that earlier then my 12hr fast mark is still under my 3 hours after I wake up fast. So I guess Ill just push that back to a 13 or 14 hr fast.
I have no idead what you just said, but I THINK you are saying that if you stop eating that early then your fasting window will move up. I thought we were talking about eating carbs? Eat some ham or veggies before bed. Problem solved..RB
My thing about this is, if I stop eating that earlier then my 12hr fast mark is still under my 3 hours after I wake up fast. So I guess Ill just push that back to a 13 or 14 hr fast.
I have no idead what you just said, but I THINK you are saying that if you stop eating that early then your fasting window will move up. I thought we were talking about eating carbs? Eat some ham or veggies before bed. Problem solved..RB
+1, Cutting back your Backload does not mean you cant have a 4oz Burger Patty Before Bed, or on your scheduled "12 Hour Mark"
My thing about this is, if I stop eating that earlier then my 12hr fast mark is still under my 3 hours after I wake up fast. So I guess Ill just push that back to a 13 or 14 hr fast.
I have no idead what you just said, but I THINK you are saying that if you stop eating that early then your fasting window will move up. I thought we were talking about eating carbs? Eat some ham or veggies before bed. Problem solved..RB
+1, Cutting back your Backload does not mean you cant have a 4oz Burger Patty Before Bed, or on your scheduled "12 Hour Mark"
Yep. In the book he even suggests some (read: any) protein before bed.
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