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Would it be an ok idea instead of backloading with carbs on the night before a workout in the morning to backload with lots of protein shakes? It would seem that this would avoid the carbs at night but add the insulin response in the morning post workout. Of course, there is the problem that your body could develop a preference from protein if it exceeds fat, but maybe protein shakes with heavy cream would work. Or maybe you could limit this to one night per week. Anyone see a problem with this other than the depletion of the 1:1 ratio?
Go look at the thread about the perfect backload using dextrose and protein shakes. You'll get information there.
Well, I wouldn't use fat. That will just slow digestion and blunt the insulin response. I'm not sure how much whey shakes you would have to consume to equal the insulin response of carbs. You might add leucine. Or just eat the damn carbs 🙂It would be nice to get some more info from Kiefer regarding AM training. I asked a question a few pod casts back about that insulin response but it didn't get answered. I checked the references he sites in the book but couldnt find much relevant info.
Well, I wouldn't use fat. That will just slow digestion and blunt the insulin response. I'm not sure how much whey shakes you would have to consume to equal the insulin response of carbs. You might add leucine. Or just eat the damn carbs 🙂It would be nice to get some more info from Kiefer regarding AM training. I asked a question a few pod casts back about that insulin response but it didn't get answered. I checked the references he sites in the book but couldnt find much relevant info.
Well, I was providing an alternative to eating the carbs as a way to limit fat loss a little more. Certainly without the carbs, it would not provide the same response post workout, but my idea was to shift some of the muscle gain to fat loss.As for AM training, I really agree. If you don't have a flexible schedule, it's almost like you can't do it. I think the diet works so much better if you workout 3-5 than trying to backload the night before an AM workout.
but my idea was to shift some of the muscle gain to fat loss.
Just so you know. Muscle gain enhances fat loss.
If I'm not mistaken, morning fasted weight lifting is better for weight loss anyway. If you're not concerned with building muscle, then you really shouldnt be concerned with the insulin spike, right? I suppose you could just skip trying to acheive that insulin spike the night before. But on the other hand, you need carbs for glycogen replenishment; something that protein shakes and leucine won't do. I'll admit I'm no expert on this and I'm pulling this out of my ass and doing the literary equivalent of thinking out loud here: I suspect whether or not you might get away with skipping the backload the night before depends on how long it's been since your last backload. If you are planning a workout in the morning on day 3 and your last backload was day 1 then, as far as glycogen is concerned, its probably ok to skip the backload on day 2. That is, if you aren't concerned with gaining muscle. That's my thoery.
If I'm not mistaken, morning fasted weight lifting is better for weight loss anyway. If you're not concerned with building muscle, then you really shouldnt be concerned with the insulin spike, right? I suppose you could just skip trying to acheive that insulin spike the night before. But on the other hand, you need carbs for glycogen replenishment; something that protein shakes and leucine won't do. I'll admit I'm no expert on this and I'm pulling this out of my ass and doing the literary equivalent of thinking out loud here: I suspect whether or not you might get away with skipping the backload the night before depends on how long it's been since your last backload. If you are planning a workout in the morning on day 3 and your last backload was day 1 then, as far as glycogen is concerned, its probably ok to skip the backload on day 2. That is, if you aren't concerned with gaining muscle. That's my thoery.
These are some interesting thoughts. It's not that I'm not interested in muscle gain, just that I'm thinking if what might work if someone would rather limit the fat loss. The backload the night before will certainly refill glycogen, but it will probably end up in some fat storage as well since Glut4 isn't turned on like it is after lifting. Also there's the fact that if you backloaded after your last workout, that would have restored your glycogen already. It's not so much a plan for all the time as maybe something to do before a light day of lifting in the morning. It seems like you could generate something of an insulin spike w/o the carbs because you don't need the carbs as much, and you want to limit fat gain.As a practical approach, this would be the plan:Monday-Full Body; Backload afterTuesday-Off; ULC; protein shake backloadWednesday-Light training in morning; protein shake; ULCThursday-OffFriday-Full Body; Backload afterI'm still getting two backloads after my big workouts at the optimal times at night, but since the Wednesday training is light and in the morning, I create the insulin spike I can with just protein shakes.
So aside from your PWO shake on weds morning, it's basically 5 days of ULC and 2 days of backloading then? This more like a modified Carb Nite. I would say you will be fairly glycogen depleted only backloading 2 nights a week so hitting the carbs tuesday night is not likely to put on fat. Those carbs will go to glycogen replenishment and you will get your insulin spike.
So aside from your PWO shake on weds morning, it's basically 5 days of ULC and 2 days of backloading then? This more like a modified Carb Nite. I would say you will be fairly glycogen depleted only backloading 2 nights a week so hitting the carbs tuesday night is not likely to put on fat. Those carbs will go to glycogen replenishment and you will get your insulin spike.
That does kinda make sense, but Tuesday night would be just coming off of a Monday backload. I tend to go huge on backloads, but you're probably right; I probably do have some empty stores. I'd rather do two huge backloads Mon and Fri and then the shakes Tues night, but I may still be missing some glycogen. There's only one way to find out, so I'll get to some experimenting.
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