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Hey ALL wise & experienced CBL & CNS'ers,Question: Im having alot of trouble leaning down, I wake up feeling flat and soft every time I do my cardio the night before. What am I doing wrong or missing?If your just reading this post but your also having issues trying to lean up & train MMA, please put down a comment "Plus 1" should suffice. Kiefer once said that we all need to ether make our training fit around our eating or change our eating to fit the needs of our training.. so good news I wont be changing up my training scheduled. What im really hoping to get from the forum is some advice on how to eat with the goal of get ripped (8-10% body fat).Current status: 27years old, 173cm tall, 15% BF.My training schedule: (Note: I use the Shockwave APP on iphone)Sunday: Rest DayMonday: 7pm Shockwave Leg sessionTuesday: 6pm 1-2 hour Mauy Thai then BJJ sessionWednesday: 7pm Shockwave Chest & Back sessionThursday: 6pm 1-2 hour Mauy Thai then BJJ sessionFriday: 6pm Sparing sessionSaturday: 6pm Shockwave Shoulders & ArmsNutrition looks like this:Low Carb days7-8am: Long black coffee with organic grass fed butter (aka Dave Asprey's Bulletproof coffee)12:30pm: 100g grass fed steak with a table spoon of MCT oil2:30-3pm: 100g grass fed steak with a table spoon of MCT oil6-7pm: Pre work out - BCAA's + Creatine + MCT oil7-8-9pm: Post workout - BCAA's + Creatine + 100% Hydrolise whey protein shake.9-10pm: Steak & Broccoli or burger pizza or bacon & 3 eggsCarb Back Loading Days(Wednesday & Saturdays: The same as normal low carb days until post workout)Post workout: BCAA's + 20-30grams of vitargo + Creatine + 100% Hydrolise whey protein shake8-10pm Small pack of skittles, sometime pizza, gluten free chips all of that good stuff.I've listen to all the podcasts, read both books, so correct me if im wrong but I'm under the impression that if I carb back load the day before, then Im doing the right thing by scheduling my cardio to be the day after and theoretically the morning after night cardio I should wake up slightly harder.- Should I be consuming less fat or more? - What day to day indicators should i be looking for to tell me that im reducing bodyfat?As a side note for people, i know im not over training because im using BioForce HRV, its awesome and if you dont have it already you should get it.
Just to bump this conversation… Kiefer mentions in CNS that with long duration cardio you can get some muscle wastage so im pretty sure cortisol levels are definately a factor here.
Just to bump this conversation... Kiefer mentions in CNS that with long duration cardio you can get some muscle wastage so im pretty sure cortisol levels are definately a factor here.
i posted this on your other thread so ill just copy/paste 🙂i haven't read this but maybe you can get someone to send it to you and see how it works for you http://athlete.io/forum/index.php?topic=8956.0its his plan for high volume training like crossfit and marine/army type workouts.. may work well for your type of workouts. I haven't actually gotten the PDF yet though to look through itvideo is here but the actual information and plan is on the PDF you need ot get someone to send youhttp://www.metacafe.com/watch/9622554/crossfit_diet_guide_to_results_with_carb_backloading/
Cheers mate! Are you doing any MMA training yourself? or even something similar?
Cheers mate! Are you doing any MMA training yourself? or even something similar?
Nah.. i'm more into straight lifting right now and that's pretty much all i have time for. Got a couple friends heavy into crossfit and saw that post about a CBL based around routines with much more endurance stuff so figured it would help you out
gotcha.. cheers once again tho man, hopefully someone gets back to me with the pdf..
I must say I don't understand the issue people are having with getting the PDF?It was there along with my CBL book at http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/member (just noticed it hasn't been ported to athlete.io yet) and it's still there now?I only signed up a couple of months ago too (after the link had long gone) so it's not that..
For some reason my purchase of CBL isnt coming up, emailed support to fix it.. Any chance you could send me the pdf? mike__booth@me.com
I am probably one of the only people on this forum who do both a crap ton of endurance training (boxing 2+ hours 4-6 times a week) on top of lifting heavy, and I'm not talking SW either. You should check my log and send me a PM if you want to know more, but ultimately you gotta find what works for you. It seems to me that you may be under-eating on your carb days with all that training. Do you have a rough idea of your macros? I don't think you are eating too much fat unless your backloads contain a lot of it which is unnecessary IMO. Your reasoning about the cardio is a bit faulty I must say, as lifting weights will make you look harder, not cardio. I wake up looking like shit if I go really crazy at boxing and low-carb it, so I think that flat look is just you being a little bit too depleted with the absence of any kind of pump. I know people hate the scale, but checking it once in a while, taking note of how your clothes feel, performance and muscle definition will tell you if you are on the right track.In my case, the days that are more telling are usually the ones after a day off and a moderate backload. I then get a workout in and check out what the mirror says. For example, today I noticed improved vascularity in my arms which I could see through my clothes and improved ab definition, but that was after a good night of sleep and around 200 g of carbs while my normal daily backloads tend to be around 400 g. Now I will not perform as well looking really tight as I would being a bit more watery, so I just tighten things up once in a while to see where I am at.Ultimately, you will have to be patient to get to 10% or lower as most people are not pre-disposed to reach that point easily. Also, realize that you will run into set points, in my case it was 165 pounds and 12 % bf, I could basically stay in a dieting and bulking cycle for all eternity and end up at that weight. It took me several weeks just for the scale to start going down a pound or two and I was dieting/training with the vengeance of the gods.
Cheers for the feedback
It seems to me that you may be under-eating on your carb days with all that training. Do you have a rough idea of your macros? I don't think you are eating too much fat unless your backloads contain a lot of it which is unnecessary IMO.
My macros on low carb days tend to look like this:Totals Callories: 2969 Carbs: 54 (38 fiber) Fat: 230 Protein: 225 Sometimes 20-30 grams less. As for carb back load days I think I may be going to hard..The day is usually the same, after my workouts i smash 2 packets of skittles (about 92 grams of carbs), 20-30 grams of vitargo, gulten free bbq meat loves pizza with heaps of extra topping, a box of gluten free corn chips, and sometime a carton of ben and jerry's ice cream. Oh and I skip the quest protein bars which make up about 30 grams of fiber. lol Ive started not having the icecream and pizza because i find eating until im sick not worth it.
Your reasoning about the cardio is a bit faulty I must say, as lifting weights will make you look harder, not cardio. I wake up looking like shit if I go really crazy at boxing and low-carb it, so I think that flat look is just you being a little bit too depleted with the absence of any kind of pump. I know people hate the scale, but checking it once in a while, taking note of how your clothes feel, performance and muscle definition will tell you if you are on the right track.In my case, the days that are more telling are usually the ones after a day off and a moderate backload. I then get a workout in and check out what the mirror says. For example, today I noticed improved vascularity in my arms which I could see through my clothes and improved ab definition, but that was after a good night of sleep and around 200 g of carbs while my normal daily backloads tend to be around 400 g. Now I will not perform as well looking really tight as I would being a bit more watery, so I just tighten things up once in a while to see where I am at.Ultimately, you will have to be patient to get to 10% or lower as most people are not pre-disposed to reach that point easily. Also, realize that you will run into set points, in my case it was 165 pounds and 12 % bf, I could basically stay in a dieting and bulking cycle for all eternity and end up at that weight. It took me several weeks just for the scale to start going down a pound or two and I was dieting/training with the vengeance of the gods.
...Last night I had BCAA's during my boxing session, felt good, had 2 questbars felt even better, woke up with tighter looking skin compared to yesterday.. thinking cortisol might be the main reason for the soft look. When you started doing only 200gs of carbs how often were you CBL per week?
Every single day of the week with moderate amounts, 500-600 g being the max and around 350 being the norm. I see a huge difference in how tight I look from going under 300, it is insane. Now that you mention it, your backloads sound like they were a bit on the heavy side and believe me when I say I used to subscribe to the infrequent insane carb loads but once you start eating for performance and general well-being you find out that is less than optimal. You could have carbs wayyy more often if you just dial things in a little bit. You seem to have figured some things out already, for me the key was thinking about the next day instead of focusing on what I wanted to cram down my pie hole after a hard training session. Yes cortisol will make you look like shit generally, hence why when you are training balls out it's wise not to stare at yourself in the mirror every 5 seconds and evaluate how you look on a day when you are well rested and well fed, but not too much.
300 carbs haha thats crazy, im going to have to try that one! Pretty sure if I tried smashing that much carbs i go straight into a carb coma.. Im curious i want your having for carb loads? & are you carb loading at night? or right after your work outs?Are you boxing in the morning or at night?
For the record I do get into a carb coma and get thermo so crazy that it feels like my whole body is going to dissolve. Training 2-3 hours daily at a high intensity level will do that to you, believe me 300 g is actually not that much and I am just 160 pounds, though pretty lean. For carb sources I really like sweet potatoes, bananas, rice, rice flour pastries, ice cream, yogurt, cereal and the occasional box of pastries to get my fats as my cuts of meat are a bit on the lean side these days.As far as training schedule it is all over the place. Sometimes I box at lunchtime or in the evening, resistance training can be basically at any time of the day, even after boxing. Currently experimenting with peri-workout nutrition and not all that concerned about doing CBL as written, but I always have a large spike of carbs later in the evening, often after a workout though I backload with the next day's session in mind. If I am just going to box the next day, it doesn't really matter if I just squatted a million pounds, I'll have a moderate load. Mind you, moderate for me is a lot more than a lot of people on these forums because of how hard I train. For example, my boxing sessions will be 5-12 rounds of skipping rope at a pretty insane pace, couple rounds of shadow boxing, maybe an hour of straight bag work and a HIIT portion when I am doing mitts or my trainer wants me to leave the gym. I have a trainer following me around with a mop, so you can imagine I need the carbs. Actually trying to pack on a bit of muscle mass so on "off" days I will go to the gym twice or just do one really intense marathon session. A rest day for me is still a moderately difficult lifting session.And that is why I tell people to find out what works for them because as you can see, it would be difficult to make a template out of what I do.
Sounds like your pretty dialed in.. You must recover really well with that kind of weekly load, have you ever looked into BioforceHRV (http://www.bioforcehrv.com/)? It's an application that guides you to avoid over training. You boxing sessions are way more intense then mine.. alot more time above 80% of MHR, my 1hr sessions are split evenly, focusing on technique. If your getting great results then putting together a template for your training would be really eye opening, im sure there would be alot of people on the forum that would benefit. Im going to try cutting out my fats after training on weight days..
Mind you it's not always optimal. For example today I look like dog shit after lifting twice yesterday and having to cram stupid amounts of food in a short window due to schedule issues. Thing is tonight I will take it easier on the carbs and go to bed a bit earlier, and tomorrow I will look/feel awesome. People worry too much about daily fluctuations which don't mean anything.I don't have too much interest in all the tracking that people do as at this point my body is pretty predictable. On days where I feel like shit, I don't train and I usually recover in 24 hours or less. I actually like "overtraining" right before taking a day or two off. I don't have a smart phone and I'm a bit of a caveman when it comes to technology haha. It would be interesting to give it a shot someday.Cleaning up the carb sources a tad would do you good, no doubt. I hear ya about the template thing and intended to do that when I have a chunk of free time which I don't currently have. My current plan is pound stimulants all day every day, train like a maniac and eat enough to be able to keep that up until my schedule allows me to better distribute my training. Performance is still improving and that's all I care about in the end. Over-reaching for a while is a great way to build work capacity and balls so that when you do recover better, everything increases even faster.
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