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I have been experimenting with CNS and CBL for about 15months now. I have made great progress most of the time and I have also made some silly mistakes. It has been a great learning curve.I now train 90% of my clients using the DH principles the other 10% just need a little more convincing The point of this is to put out an idea that seems to be working. Rather than thinking about carbs on a day to day basis consider over your weekly training and energy schedule. I have found this to make great use of the delta chart numbers.So if the delta chart tells you that 800g of carbs is your limit then this is what you base what I suggest on. If doing CNS this is the number you should aim NOT to exceed. If doing CBL SA times this number by 1.5. So in the example 800x1.5= 1200g of carbs you then break this down to match how often you train! So if you train 3x a week you can break 1200g up however you see fit.Maybe 500 after legs, 400 after back and 300 after chest? Then for CBL DB I times our number by 2.5 and spread it over the whole week.So this is 2000g of carbs spread over the week? So I then push most of these to fit around workouts and 1-200 on other days!This is working quite well and is easy to implement. If you give it a go please give your feedback. Would also be great to hear what Kiefer thinks?
Wow yeah this way of thinking definitely makes sense! I'll see if Kiefer can't look at this and give some thought as well.
Those multipliers would have to be higher if train more frequently. If you are training 5 days a week, I think you will need more carbs. It is a good idea to think of weekly caloric loads, rather than just daily caloric loads.
@ibob I guess it depends on the amount of total volume too? These numbers are just suggestions, I just started to think it best to focus on a weekly/ training schedule based cycle than every day separately and actually using the delta chart numbers that seem to confuse so many people.
@ibob I guess it depends on the amount of total volume too? These numbers are just suggestions, I just started to think it best to focus on a weekly/ training schedule based cycle than every day separately and actually using the delta chart numbers that seem to confuse so many people.
The charts do confuse people but in a method like this one seems to make it more understandable. A solid baseline is good to determine for the week, but even with a high-volume based split, I have a hard time getting in 300g worth of carbs, even after a brutal Leg Day.
@ibob I guess it depends on the amount of total volume too? These numbers are just suggestions, I just started to think it best to focus on a weekly/ training schedule based cycle than every day separately and actually using the delta chart numbers that seem to confuse so many people.
I agree
Cheers Guys, As i said, if youtry it out please give your feedback here. It would be good to get a few opinions
I have been experimenting with CNS and CBL for about 15months now. I have made great progress most of the time and I have also made some silly mistakes. It has been a great learning curve.I now train 90% of my clients using the DH principles the other 10% just need a little more convincing The point of this is to put out an idea that seems to be working. Rather than thinking about carbs on a day to day basis consider over your weekly training and energy schedule. I have found this to make great use of the delta chart numbers.So if the delta chart tells you that 800g of carbs is your limit then this is what you base what I suggest on. If doing CNS this is the number you should aim NOT to exceed. If doing CBL SA times this number by 1.5. So in the example 800x1.5= 1200g of carbs you then break this down to match how often you train! So if you train 3x a week you can break 1200g up however you see fit.Maybe 500 after legs, 400 after back and 300 after chest? Then for CBL DB I times our number by 2.5 and spread it over the whole week.So this is 2000g of carbs spread over the week? So I then push most of these to fit around workouts and 1-200 on other days!This is working quite well and is easy to implement. If you give it a go please give your feedback. Would also be great to hear what Kiefer thinks?
Cheers Guys, As i said, if youtry it out please give your feedback here. It would be good to get a few opinions
This is so great that you posted this because I was thinking of something very similar which arose out of my recent frustration that resulted in some stalled progress after a recent load. I was reluctant to post my thesis on the forum because I felt it was too numbers heavy and might lose a lot of members who felt it was being too detailed in calorie counting but it's almost along the same lines but with a slightly different tact.I will give a brief synopsis here and see what you guys think. My basis was my caloric maintenence which I know what it is because I tracked my food pre CNS with normal everyday eating with tons of carbs for almost 2 months straight on Calorie King and didn't gain or lose a lb and my measurements all stayed the same. Now of course this method requires a rough idea of what your daily maintainance is. And yes I understand Kiefers disdain for teh calories in vs. calories out argument, but I still think it holds some validity when trying to arrive at some benchmark. Not that the numbers themselves mean anything. It's more about giving you set points from which to measure. Make sense?My daily maintence was 2300-2400, which comes out to around ~13.33kc/lb@ 180lbs, which was my weight at that time. And as on Lyle McDonalds site he goes into great detail about how you can determine a rough idea of maintence for normal, healthy indviduals based on 14-16 calories per/lb, and I've found this to hold true for most people, give or take a calorie.So the way I was thinking about it was like this to determine how much carbs to do on my load on CNS.Previously determined maintinece (assuming same current activity level) 2300x7 days= 16100kc per weekCurrent Macros 175f:175p = 1575f+700p= 2275kc per day2275 x 7 days = 15925 kc per weekSo if I'm eating 2275kc x 6 days per week=13650kc , this leaves me with a 2350 calorie reserve my 7th carb day, so if I only eat say 500 calories up to 5pm on Carbnite, that leaves me with 1850 calories to blow on carbs.So lets say I use my delta chart figure which for me I lost 5lbs, which equals 455 carbs (upper limit)So lets say I drop down 10% below this, which is ~400 carbs, so 400x4=1600kc, this leaves about 250kc for fat.so lets say I eat 30grams fat and 400grams carbs and lets throw in 100 grams protein, which as we know protein cannot get stored as fat anyways so exceeding the calories by way of protein ingestion is no biggie I would imagine. So in other words my carbload would be around 2750-3000kc, with ~1200kc from carbs; ~300kc from fat; ~400kc from protein. I would also imagine that one could conceivably eat more than 30grams of fat, maybe even up to 60 or 70 grams, because for the weeks totals we were still 200 calories below what was my previously determined maintainence and then when we factor in the thermogenic effects of carb loading, we can probably even eat a little bit more than 3000 total calories during the load and still lose weight.Also it's my understanding that weight loss on CNS is not due to calorie reduction below maintainence but from elimination of carbs which creates a metabolic pathway to burn fat while still eating at or above ones maintainence calories. So we can back load and still lose weight and still conceivably be eating at or above matainence. But I think this also points out to the fact that one cannot just eat how ever much they want on carb night and then wonder why they are stalling, there is a point of diminishing returns that I think gets lost on a lot of people. At the end of the day or night (no pun intended, lol) carb nites are just as much for function as they are for flavor and we must be mindful that it still is possible to over do it and stall or even reverse progress. And this I think is where these types of formulas come in handy for someone like myself who is a details person, rather than seat of the pants.And the funny thing is my figures come out to almost the same as the delta chart.In my opinion, I think everything comes down to consistency in the training and diet sot hat you can have a solid set points from which to alter course if things are not going well. for me it was stalling that caused me to, instead of freaking out, just step back and reevaluate everything and see where I can tighten it up and then reasses again.What do you guys think?
I have been experimenting with CNS and CBL for about 15months now. I have made great progress most of the time and I have also made some silly mistakes. It has been a great learning curve.I now train 90% of my clients using the DH principles the other 10% just need a little more convincing The point of this is to put out an idea that seems to be working. Rather than thinking about carbs on a day to day basis consider over your weekly training and energy schedule. I have found this to make great use of the delta chart numbers.So if the delta chart tells you that 800g of carbs is your limit then this is what you base what I suggest on. If doing CNS this is the number you should aim NOT to exceed. If doing CBL SA times this number by 1.5. So in the example 800x1.5= 1200g of carbs you then break this down to match how often you train! So if you train 3x a week you can break 1200g up however you see fit.Maybe 500 after legs, 400 after back and 300 after chest? Then for CBL DB I times our number by 2.5 and spread it over the whole week.So this is 2000g of carbs spread over the week? So I then push most of these to fit around workouts and 1-200 on other days!This is working quite well and is easy to implement. If you give it a go please give your feedback. Would also be great to hear what Kiefer thinks?
sckiely how did you arrive at the multipliers 1.5 & 2.5 respectively?
Those numbers are not set in stone. They are just an easy starting point for most people. Truth be told I just used myself as a guinea pig to come to these numbers. As I mentioned I have made good progress and mistakes and these numbers are the results of my experiments.Like everything with CBL it needs to be adjusted. These do however act as minimums for most people following CBL and it seems to work really well as the maximum for those doing carb nite.I have a number of clients now using this set up and making steady progress and I am using the carb nite set up and making good steady progress, couple more weeks and I'll post some pics.I have put some client pics up in the past but at the moment I want to wait until these guys are in the shape they want before sharing theirs!
@ibob I guess it depends on the amount of total volume too? These numbers are just suggestions, I just started to think it best to focus on a weekly/ training schedule based cycle than every day separately and actually using the delta chart numbers that seem to confuse so many people.
The charts do confuse people but in a method like this one seems to make it more understandable. A solid baseline is good to determine for the week, but even with a high-volume based split, I have a hard time getting in 300g worth of carbs, even after a brutal Leg Day.
Man im half your size and to get 300g isnt enough for me lol some jelly beans, waxy maize pwo couple cups of rice and some cookies with light ice cream and im well over!!
But I think this also points out to the fact that one cannot just eat how ever much they want on carb night and then wonder why they are stalling, [/color][/font]
The problem with this statement is that the Carb Nite requires very large insulin releases, which in turn require a lot of food with complete macronutrient profiles. I don't think you should hold yourself back on Carb Nite, unless you have a problem with binge eating. Kiefer said most people stall for several weeks on Carb Nite and it eventually resolves itself. Stalling is normal.I think the problem with over eating on Carb Nites is people who eat until they are about to vomit. There is a fair amount of them and it should be obvious that it is being overdone. The point being: Use Common Sense! You should not be sick on a Carb Nite!If you'd like to shoot for a number I think yours or sckielys numbers are good.
@ibob I guess it depends on the amount of total volume too? These numbers are just suggestions, I just started to think it best to focus on a weekly/ training schedule based cycle than every day separately and actually using the delta chart numbers that seem to confuse so many people.
The charts do confuse people but in a method like this one seems to make it more understandable. A solid baseline is good to determine for the week, but even with a high-volume based split, I have a hard time getting in 300g worth of carbs, even after a brutal Leg Day.
Man im half your size and to get 300g isnt enough for me lol some jelly beans, waxy maize pwo couple cups of rice and some cookies with light ice cream and im well over!!
Haha yeah everyone tends to eat more than me,
Cheers Guys, As i said, if youtry it out please give your feedback here. It would be good to get a few opinions
I'm in.... I am a couple of days into my 4th week on C.B.L. And, I'll be doing C.B.L. until the end of the year (14 weeks from now)Quick workout stats: (shooting for 800 carbs - based on the body-weight chart)Sat. - Chest & Triceps (300 carbs)Sun. - Legs ( 350 carbs)Mon. - offTues. - Shoulders & Abs (200 carbs)Wed. or Thurs. - Back, Biceps & Abs (350 carbs)If this looks good; then I'll go with this split.It may be a bit of a struggle as it's hard to get up to 350 carbs for me.
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