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Question: What is the real difference between Carb-Nite and other Ketogenic Diets?Proposition: The only fundamental difference is the Timing/Duration of Carb-Up. Carb-Nite promotes only Carb-Loading at Night for only one day of the week, hence the name. Kiefer states in the book that this makes a difference in terms of results, not specifying the degree of difference Is it time for Kiefer to update his old Carb-Nite Solution Book?I have finished reading Lyle McDonalds Ketogenic Diet book. And have only been "walking-the-walk" i.e. doing these diets to great effect for a few short weeks. So this isn't a troll post, I've read Carb-Nite. Also purchased the albeit expensive CBL, and digest most of the information put out on DH.com podcasts and posts (along with plenty of other research posts and from other popular individuals in nutrition/resistant training).Despite my Zealot like ways I am just saying that in reality there is a lot of great work being done out there and I can see very few differences between the copyrighted and independently researched Carb-Nite solution and other works out there.
- Carb-Nite Solution - Amazon says published in August 2005. Independently researched based on science up until that point. Ketogenic Diet - Most popular outlet of it is Lyle McDonald book in 1998, providing a few variations. Independently researched and based on science up until that point. You see many research and forum posts regarding Lyle McDonalds work from 2002-2007 or so. Popularized again by Tim Ferris discussing it in website posts, interviews (Joe Rogan podcast and various outlets etc) in promotion of 4 Hour Body (2010)
Science has moved forward, hence Kiefer may have been building on recent developments up to that point, but in reality 80% of the protocols are the similar if not the same. High Protein-High Fat advocated for most of the week. Not advocated but stated that it is preferential to eat non-processed meats etc. But the difference/variations lie in the Carb-Load Duration/Timing. Macro-nutrient requirements for Heavier individuals (180-200+ pounds) seem to similar as well for the entire week.Anyway it might be a moot point or even a testament to the fact that these types of diets are in fact excellent at producing efficient fat loss. For those interested in reading and understanding the diets themselves rather than just following the protocol it is good to note out that there are many great sources of information out there if you get readingBut for those without degrees in the subjects (medicine, biology etc etc) i.e. myself, it is difficult to make variations based on more recent scientific discoveries. Perhaps an update is needed or perhaps not.....
You pretty much got it. Another difference though is Kiefer's belief that junk food can be functional and in some cases preferred, which to my knowledge is not promoted by most other ketogenic gurus.
You pretty much got it. Another difference though is Kiefer's belief that junk food can be functional and in some cases preferred, which to my knowledge is not promoted by most other ketogenic gurus.
Nah, Tim ferris's diet has a cheat day built into because of hormonal benefits, and Lyle mcdonald has been on record saying that once protein/fat requirements have been met, where your carbs come from are relatively unimportant.
You pretty much got it. Another difference though is Kiefer's belief that junk food can be functional and in some cases preferred, which to my knowledge is not promoted by most other ketogenic gurus.
Nah, Tim ferris's diet has a cheat day built into because of hormonal benefits, and Lyle mcdonald has been on record saying that once protein/fat requirements have been met, where your carbs come from are relatively unimportant.
I stand corrected, however according to Kiefer you must consume high GI carbs. The carb Nite really isn't a cheat day because there are things you are not supposed to eat.
You pretty much got it. Another difference though is Kiefer's belief that junk food can be functional and in some cases preferred, which to my knowledge is not promoted by most other ketogenic gurus.
Nah, Tim ferris's diet has a cheat day built into because of hormonal benefits, and Lyle mcdonald has been on record saying that once protein/fat requirements have been met, where your carbs come from are relatively unimportant.
I stand corrected, however according to Kiefer you must consume high GI carbs. The carb Nite really isn't a cheat day because there are things you are not supposed to eat.
I suppose, its all semantics in my opinion. Although, I suppose semantics are how we differentiate things.
Very good highlight, correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Blog Post your referring to when you speak about Tim Ferris recommending one cheat day is this one: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/06/how-to-lose-20-lbs-of-fat-in-30-days-without-doing-any-exercise/Of course, we can't debate about specifics, because these Authors "vary" the diet to fit the specific audience, in the case of Tim Ferris his main diet is the Slow Carb Diet (which is now copyrighted). Targeted to individuals who would cry at the thought of lifting up a dumbbell. But he advocates the CKD (Cyclic Ketogenic Diet) directly in his interviews to those who are not sedentary. His protocol for CKD is High Protein, High Fat 6 days a week, and 1 day High Carb. Again, there is no point in us debating specifics, or semantics, as you pointed out, but my point fundamentally is:1. Is there really a great difference in these types of Ketogenic Diets and Kiefers Protocol? Which I am answering myself with No. They are all pretty much the same, with a 20% leeway for variations. 2. Would it be good if some people came up with a few updates that are not almost 15 years old in Lyle McDonalds case or 7 years old in Kiefers case? i.e. Carb-Nite Version 2 3. If not are there any "gurus" who are updating the Ketogenic Diets to make them more effective or reducing any drawbacks today that I don't know about?It was just a thought really....don't get me wrong, for me personally Carb-Nite/Ketogenic Diets are 10x more convenient than CBL - I'll be using it for the next 9 Months or so!
This forum has plenty if updated info for Carb Nite? If you browse through there are many new suggested tweaks and improvements.Even Kiefer mentions the need to update, it will be coming soon but for now you can browse this forum and find them
This forum has plenty if updated info for Carb Nite? If you browse through there are many new suggested tweaks and improvements.Even Kiefer mentions the need to update, it will be coming soon but for now you can browse this forum and find them
Very good highlight, correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Blog Post your referring to when you speak about Tim Ferris recommending one cheat day is this one: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/06/how-to-lose-20-lbs-of-fat-in-30-days-without-doing-any-exercise/Of course, we can't debate about specifics, because these Authors "vary" the diet to fit the specific audience, in the case of Tim Ferris his main diet is the Slow Carb Diet (which is now copyrighted). Targeted to individuals who would cry at the thought of lifting up a dumbbell. But he advocates the CKD (Cyclic Ketogenic Diet) directly in his interviews to those who are not sedentary. His protocol for CKD is High Protein, High Fat 6 days a week, and 1 day High Carb. Again, there is no point in us debating specifics, or semantics, as you pointed out, but my point fundamentally is:1. Is there really a great difference in these types of Ketogenic Diets and Kiefers Protocol? Which I am answering myself with No. They are all pretty much the same, with a 20% leeway for variations. 2. Would it be good if some people came up with a few updates that are not almost 15 years old in Lyle McDonalds case or 7 years old in Kiefers case? i.e. Carb-Nite Version 2 3. If not are there any "gurus" who are updating the Ketogenic Diets to make them more effective or reducing any drawbacks today that I don't know about?It was just a thought really....don't get me wrong, for me personally Carb-Nite/Ketogenic Diets are 10x more convenient than CBL - I'll be using it for the next 9 Months or so!
Besides whats here in regard to what foods to load on, you can't really improve the ketogenic diet as a set up. We already have the information on what kind of fats are good to eat, and when. IE, MCT before working out for an energy boost, saturated fats vs plant fats, ect. Also awareness of gluten intolerance for those that it does effect. Also, the protein requirements have been updated a long time. Kiefer and Lyle both now recommend around 1g/lb of protein. I don't really know how you want it to be improved. Also, A lot of variations have been discovered through experimenting with what works for you. Nutrition is very individual, and sometimes things are discovered on accident. I believe when kiefer said when he developed CBL, he looked at research that gave him a general idea of the mechanics, but fine tuned it through more research but also a fair amount of experimentation.
Ah I see, again good points Zach! Thanks for highlighting!!Well at least now I know I am doing the best protocol possible with regards to Keto diets
You should read the writings of Dr Peter Attia, interesting stuff.http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-interplay-of-exercise-and-ketosis-part-i
You should read the writings of Dr Peter Attia, interesting stuff.http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-interplay-of-exercise-and-ketosis-part-i
Ah wow, thanks, this is exactly what I'm looking for.Since writing this post I've discovered The Bulletproof Executive Blog aswell - one of the very best websites/blogs I've ever visited.
Beware of the unofficial “tweaks and updates” on the forum. Kiefer has said there is a lot of misinformation on here. If it hasn't been stated by Kiefer directly then you are essentially experimenting outside of the parameters of the diet. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Beware of the unofficial "tweaks and updates" on the forum. Kiefer has said there is a lot of misinformation on here. If it hasn't been stated by Kiefer directly then you are essentially experimenting outside of the parameters of the diet. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Thus why he's creating the Inner Circle I pass tweaks and knowledge to these forums and get everything sorted out.
Beware of the unofficial "tweaks and updates" on the forum. Kiefer has said there is a lot of misinformation on here. If it hasn't been stated by Kiefer directly then you are essentially experimenting outside of the parameters of the diet. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Thus why he's creating the Inner Circle I pass tweaks and knowledge to these forums and get everything sorted out.
Oh yes major +1. There are a few "tweaks" that float around here on this forum that ARE NOT Kiefer approved. Now that I think of it I need to update that sticky.
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