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So, as I understand it, Kiefer says the body's natural biorhythms dictate that carbs are utilized differently during the day than during the night and that the night time reactions are the ones we on this forum desire. He also says that it is almost impossible to gain fat while consuming carbs in the evening after a hard workout earlier in the day. So, if that is true, is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to backload carbs every single day without getting fatter so long as I have worked out hard and consume the carbs at night? I rotate my workouts from upper body one day to lower body the next day and back and forth and back and forth making it easy to be in the gym every day. So am I misunderstanding something or am I on point? CBL every single night without getting fat…possible or impossible?
It is still possible to overeat and gain fat. CBL seems to give a larger caloric buffer, but you can still eat to much and eat like shit and get fat. Having said that I often eat carbs daily even of off days and lean out, but I normally have insane training volume and frequency
I am the same as Trevor, eat carbs daily and a lot of them, sometimes at not so optimal times and I am lean as shit. ULC days are a TERRIBLE idea for people who train daily with only one caveat. If you are training to eat more carbs, I can almost assure you CBL will fail you because you will end up eating more than what your training requires. This diet isn't magic, it just gives you a couple advantages in terms of inefficiency (so you can a bit more) and nutrient partitioning.Carb requirements depend on how active you are. If you train at any level of intensity every day, avoiding carbs is just a terrible idea and a great recipe to be on your way to a metabolic shit show. On the other hand, if you train haphazardly every day and stuff your face too much, it doesn't matter which protocol you follow, you'll get fatter. In other words, make sure you have a good training program and track your progress and you can absolutely eat carbs every day, you'll just have to play around to find out how much fuel you really need.
Thanks for the responses. I don't actually train every single day like clockwork but I can also say that I do not “carb load” on days when I don't workout. If I have an off-day from the gym, I eat ultra-low carb. One of the biggest challenges for me is knowing what is and is not too much carbs. I'm 5' 10″ average build. I do not have a six pack but I'm not round either. Just a little flab around the midsection that I'd like to get rid of. It's difficult for me to build muscle so I don't think Carb Nite would be good for me. I'm sure I would lose the little muscle I DO have which wouldn't be good for my metabolism. This is a typical backload for me after a workout…I get home from the gym and spike my insulin with some Gatorade then follow it with my whey protein shake.9 times out of 10 I will eat a frozen pizza for my carb meal about 30-45 minutes after the Gatorade/whey. (I always buy the cleanest one I can find ingredients-wise. Kiefer recommends ordering a pizza from a local shop instead but that gets expensive.)After the pizza, often times I do not ingest carbs again. Occasionally, I have a second carb meal which would be ice cream or cookies or something but not usually.So, for a guy like me as I just described, does this sound like too much? Not enough? I just have no idea if what I'm doing is correct. They say "gain muscle while losing fat on this diet" and I'm just not sure if I'm seeing those results.
Well you didn't give your weight or rough BF% either. I will say, pizza, especially most frozen pizza's every night will make leaning out more difficult. I will eat a pizza 1-2 nights a week when I'm trying to lean out and I'm about 6'2, 200lbs, with around 13%-ish BF.
Trevor,I weight 150-155 lbs. and I'm not sure of my body fat percentage. As I mentioned before, I am in no way "fat". I just have enough fat around my midsection to hide my abs (especially my lower abs...you know, that problem area below the navel) and to make me feel a little softer than I would prefer. I thought Kiefer said pizza was okay. What would you recommend? The challenge of this way of eating for me is that, in some ways, it seems ridiculously simple and yet, in other ways, highly complicated and customizable. "Tinkering" with a diet has always perplexed me. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Pizza can be okay, CBL is just more of a flexible diet that you can establish into your lifestyle. As well as using CBL to help you in the gym, not the other way around. Another reason for pizza or pastries is also dependent on muscle mass. If you have a good amount of muscle you can get away with a bit more junk than someone with less. My suggestion is that, gradually work your way up to using stuff like pastries, in small amounts, using white potatoes and white rice will work just as well, and can be just as tasty. The carb amounts is something you want to consider, and why pizza can be okay or too much.
One thing that bothers me is people seem to make a “line in the sand” between IIFYM and CBL.That being said, I think doing that is stupid, because they are extremely similar. Apply the CBL "rules" to an IIFYM approach and you should be able to at least find a good starting point.Go use an IIFYM calculator to get your rough macro numbers. Hit those numbers in a CBL template--ULC during day, Carbs at night, ULC on off days(or not, try both ways) but shooting for roughly same caloric load--for 10 days and track your progress. Did you gain fat or maintain exactly? Dial back a little bit. Did you lose fat, or lose weight but get stronger? Try adding a LITTLE bit more to your intake and track progress again.End rant.
One thing that bothers me is people seem to make a "line in the sand" between IIFYM and CBL.That being said, I think doing that is stupid, because they are extremely similar. Apply the CBL "rules" to an IIFYM approach and you should be able to at least find a good starting point.
Great point!One other thing to consider, Carb Nite probably won't lose the strength that u have while dropping the persistent fat ur trying to lose. That's one of the big reasons Carb Nite is different from most other 'weight-loss' diets. I'm in the wrong thread to continue much more, but it all depends on the training regimens as the Meister said.
Kiefer never said it's impossible to gain fat in a backload if you train hard. He said it's impossible to store fat in the first hour of the Post workout period.Along with what stiff said, Kiefer did say that if you try to use CBL as an excuse to eat like shit (like what it sounds like you are thinking about doing) you will fail and probably get fat.As far as training every day, unless you are some sort of freak or have been training for years, you will not be able to train hard enough to make CBL work well. CBL works best with high volume, high intensity workouts. Something you won't be able to achieve as a newer trainee if you train everyday.
I've been training for over 10 years so I'm not a newbie to the gym. As for a previous post, I have no idea what IIFYM stands for. I'm not trying to use CBL as an excuse to eat like shit but some of what I read talked about pizza, ice cream, cookies, donuts, etc. so I assumed all that was okay. If you recommend starting with smaller backloads, would it be sufficient to spike my insulin with some Gatorade after the workout and then have my whey shake and then no more carbs for the rest of the night or is it imperative to actually eat a meal with carbs after your post-workout insulin spike? Thanks.
I've been training for over 10 years so I'm not a newbie to the gym. As for a previous post, I have no idea what IIFYM stands for. I'm not trying to use CBL as an excuse to eat like shit but some of what I read talked about pizza, ice cream, cookies, donuts, etc. so I assumed all that was okay. If you recommend starting with smaller backloads, would it be sufficient to spike my insulin with some Gatorade after the workout and then have my whey shake and then no more carbs for the rest of the night or is it imperative to actually eat a meal with carbs after your post-workout insulin spike? Thanks.
IIFYM stands for "If it fits in your macros". You can eat pizza, cookies, and donuts but it is easy to overeat in terms of calories if you are a smaller guy like yourself. And you've been training for 10 years and you are only 155 at 5'10"? It doesn't sound like you've been training for strength or hypertrophy because I don't see how that's possible. Strength and hypertrophy workouts is what gives CBL it's advantages.Here's what I would do if I were you: Skip the Gatorade and eat some actual food for a PWO meal. I like steak and potatoes. Once a week you can have a pizza or something like that after your most strenuous workout. Train 3 or 4 times per week.
Hahaha. The fact that you said I can't possibly be training for hypertrophy pretty much sums up my decade long frustration. I've tried so many different things. High weight/low rep, low weight/high rep, whole grains, no grains, low-carb, weight gainers…the biggest I ever got was 158 lbs. and that was taking in 4000 calories per day which was destroying my bank account. At this point, I've pretty much just accepted that my body is genetically designed to be this way and I lift now just to stay healthy and in shape. Whatever will be will be, I suppose. Maybe that is a defeatist's attitude but I really don't know what else to do.
Hahaha. The fact that you said I can't possibly be training for hypertrophy pretty much sums up my decade long frustration. I've tried so many different things. High weight/low rep, low weight/high rep, whole grains, no grains, low-carb, weight gainers...the biggest I ever got was 158 lbs. and that was taking in 4000 calories per day which was destroying my bank account. At this point, I've pretty much just accepted that my body is genetically designed to be this way and I lift now just to stay healthy and in shape. Whatever will be will be, I suppose. Maybe that is a defeatist's attitude but I really don't know what else to do.
What have you all done training wise? And what is your age?
Well, I'm 33 and, as I mentioned, I tried high-weight/low-rep and low-weight/high-rep. I tried circuits/super sets. I tried lifting every day. I tried longer periods of rest in between workouts. I tried incorporating cardio and then eliminating cardio. I've been all over the map. Just out curiosity, why would you suggest eliminating the Gatorade with my whey shake? Doesn't Kiefer say to spike your insulin shortly after the workout? I would imagine that steak and potatoes would not accomplish that. No?
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