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Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forums, after some time lifting.I'm planning to compete in a local Men's Physique show 3 months from the day. I'm not all too big, but I'm doing this for the experience more then anything. I'd like to come in being pretty lean though (not BB show lean though, seeing the winners from last year), probably in the range of 7%. I've basically got 12 weeks, to do so. I'm 6'2", 190, and idk my Bf %. I can post a pic if needed, but I have a full set of abs, but still carry fat in the lower back / love handle area. I'm sub 15%, but honestly probably not single digits yet.I've done great getting leaner while getting more muscular and stronger with CBL, and would like to use it into my prep. I'm taking in only about 300-350g of carbs on training days right now, and figured it would lower as the prep continued. I only have 2 ULC days a week (my two off days), but may push that to 3, with 4 'training/BL' days. I guess my question is, has anyone hit that real 'low' BF with CBL? Or is that a CarbNite deal? I train heavy, with intensity, so CN seems like it wouldn't be great how it is set-up now (keto-diets haven't been great for me in the past, even with refeeds).Thanks in advance.
I would be interested to hear replies on this. If anything it seems like the athletic, leaner guys do better with CBL style (maybe with more aggressive caloric cuts on rest days). Carbnite, for me at least, flattens me out and makes me feel miserable and weaker without that much more fat loss it seems…
You could probably hit 7% with a carb-backloading structure. To reach lower I'd suggest that you'll need longer periods without carbs than what you've outlined here. That's not to say that you would have to follow the schedule laid out in CarbNite but if you're ingesting 300-350g 5 days per week and you're not currently very lean you will most likely need more of a carb nite style diet.
I would run CNS until you get closer to 10%, then switch to CBL, making sure your sleep is on point and you aren't over-training etc. The leaner you are, the more carbs you can handle, and in my experience, the more you'll need to really shred down. Don't make the mistake of dieting harder to get leaner, your body is too damn smart for that. I currently sit around 7-8% and have been running a hybrid CNS/CBL gig for the last few weeks, tinkering and experimenting to see what works and what doesn't. Although CNS is generally recommended for better fat loss, I find it's easier at this level of body fat to maintain that hard/dry look when I gravitate towards more backloads, not less. This is completely an n=1 observation, but going a few days without carbs tends to make me retain water like crazy, have crappy sleep and become weak as hell in the gym. During the prep-phase I held a ton of water and basically didn't lose any weight. After my first backload I dropped 10 pounds over night. Can you say whoosh? As long as I keep my backloads gluten free and in the 700-800g range I routinely wake up lighter and leaner looking than when I have too many ULC days in a row. I'm not quite sure of the mechanism(s) responsible for this, but I know that being in ketosis requires a lot more sodium, so perhaps during my ULC days I'm not getting enough and it's messing with my aldosterone levels causing some water retention. I also could have some HPA axis dis-regulation on the ULC days thanks to elevated cortisol etc. Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that for me, CBL, not CNS is far superior for maintaining a shredded physique, and from what I've seen on the forums, it seems to be the case for most other sub 10% SHITs.So ya, CNS to 10%, then CBL to get and maintain below that. Just my 2 cents.
I would run CNS until you get closer to 10%, then switch to CBL, making sure your sleep is on point and you aren't over-training etc. The leaner you are, the more carbs you can handle, and in my experience, the more you'll need to really shred down. Don't make the mistake of dieting harder to get leaner, your body is too damn smart for that. I currently sit around 7-8% and have been running a hybrid CNS/CBL gig for the last few weeks, tinkering and experimenting to see what works and what doesn't. Although CNS is generally recommended for better fat loss, I find it's easier at this level of body fat to maintain that hard/dry look when I gravitate towards more backloads, not less. This is completely an n=1 observation, but going a few days without carbs tends to make me retain water like crazy, have crappy sleep and become weak as hell in the gym. During the prep-phase I held a ton of water and basically didn't lose any weight. After my first backload I dropped 10 pounds over night. Can you say whoosh? As long as I keep my backloads gluten free and in the 700-800g range I routinely wake up lighter and leaner looking than when I have too many ULC days in a row. I'm not quite sure of the mechanism(s) responsible for this, but I know that being in ketosis requires a lot more sodium, so perhaps during my ULC days I'm not getting enough and it's messing with my aldosterone levels causing some water retention. I also could have some HPA axis dis-regulation on the ULC days thanks to elevated cortisol etc. Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that for me, CBL, not CNS is far superior for maintaining a shredded physique, and from what I've seen on the forums, it seems to be the case for most other sub 10% SHITs.So ya, CNS to 10%, then CBL to get and maintain below that. Just my 2 cents.
Awesome to hear this. Echoes my experiences. I was afraid something was going wrong and forced myself to do more carbnite even though frequent CBL's got me better results (aesthetically and performance-wise) in gym. I find that one super low carb day on rest days (or even completely fasted, alternate day fasting style) is great but 2 or more days in a row and I feel softer. Almost like a reverse carbnite....CBL every day with one or two carbnites a week 🙂
Ya man, I'm the exact same way. Go too long without carbs, regardless of how much fat I throw down, and the wheels start to come off. Tough life eh? 😉
You can hit the extremely low levels of body fat with CBL, but it needs to become highly refined. Listen to the latest podcast with John Meadows who pretty much stumbled on the path and has been getting great results with it.BioJacked with John MeadowsThe general formula: ULC until training (I wouldn't even worry about vegetables, but would supplement heavily with coconut oil and make beef your main source of protein); With training, consume 200-250 grams of pure carbs with hydrolysates mixed in during and post training. If you choose during, wait 15 to 30 minutes into the training to do so.Obviously, there's more to it than this, but this is 90% of the way there.
Wow, thanks so much guys. I'm the same way most of ya'll seem to be, actually gotten BETTER results with 4-5 CBL's a week with a few ULC days a week seems to keep me getting leaner. I was more concerned with being able to get lean ENOUGH. lolKeifer: Thanks so much for weighing in. I listened to the podcast last night, was very helpful. So for trying to get into a much lower BF%, you think getting some intra-workout carbs in more beneficial? I had been waiting a bit post-workout to have any carbs, thinking it would help with fat burning. But I'm totally cool with putting some intra-workout, if you think it'll help more. Thanks.
Kiefer is your recommendation of 200-250g carbs for intra + post workout shakes? And then back load on top of that? Or is that the total carbs for the entire night including both intra and post workout?
According to the podcast with John Meadows, he was having 250g total on training days… All around the training window (pre, peri and post)…
I think, and this could be wrong, but from his interview with Meadows, Keifer and him seem to be in agreement about a lot of things. JM his a huge proponent of having carbs in the system during lifting sessions. I've heard many coaches say it's actually more important the leaner you get.So I think maybe, to get from mid-teens to around 10% bf, just typical backloading, if done correctly with a little emphasis on fat-loss, will probably work. However, getting into those single digit body fat area, may need some more specific nutrient timing, like putting the CBL'ing closer to around lifting. Though, that would make not training in the evening a bit difficult probably.
The other thing we are missing from the interview is whether or not JM was in a caloric deficit. Typical backloading is far from a caloric deficit.
The other thing we are missing from the interview is whether or not JM was in a caloric deficit. Typical backloading is far from a caloric deficit.
I think it's safe to say he's in a deficit. I think to get that level of BF%, you'll likely have to be. Looking at JM's updates on FB anc stuff, dieting was pretty 'hard', not an easy feat. lol
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