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In practically every other podcast I hear with Kiefer, and in the book as well, he’s almost schizophrenic on this topic on whether to eat junk or not. One moment he’s saying to eat white rice with honey to get the spike so as to eat as less junky as possible, then in the other he’s saying just go for the junk.
It’s very confusing, especially considering a lot of junk food has fructose, which as far as I understand is metabolized in the liver and completely circumvents insulin resistance.
So what’s the takeaway? Only eat junk that doesn’t contain frutose, such as say, Pizza? But then I don’t understand why he mentions Donuts and so on.
Another thing, he seems to talk about glucose replenishment and insulin spike as two different goals. Say for example, you could eat white rice for all the glucose it has available to refill your muscle stores, and then eat a donut with it to get a real good insulin spike along with it. Am I understanding that correctly?
There is no clear answer. It depends on you and your goals. The only constant is that you can have junk occasionally. How often “occasionally” is is something you will have to determine.
My advice would be to eliminate junk food. If you are getting results, you can experiment with junk food to see how much you can handle while still progressing towards your goals.
When you hear stuff from Kiefer, you have to consider the big picture. If you cherry pick him, you will not get results.
Perhaps you are mixing protocols?
Carb nite you can get away with more junk, and you’re looking for that insulin spike (to kick start your metabolism from the week of ULC) not so much for the glycogen replenishment. With backloading you’re looking for both a spike in insulin (which is why you choose high glycemic foods, such as jasmine rice and waxy white potato well cooked) to help build your muscles AND to replenish glycogen. With CBL try to only have junk every once in awhile, and maybe more often once you are seeing results to see how much you can have before it starts hindering goals. Heck, some people have great results on junk, but I wouldn’t call them the norm. This is a bit n=1, just make sure you ingest high insulin spiking carbs that are glucose prominent.
Keifer also has stated that making your own trumps store bought, and in this case you can make sure you create your goodies with dextrose instead of using sucrose, HFCS, or fructose. Make your own cookies instead of purchasing a box of oreos with an ingredient list two inches long. Control the ingredients for a more optimal backload. (See pg 141 CBL 1.0)
It depends on goals, If I am bulking I tend to go for “junk” and fast-food more often. When I am cutting I have a set calorie limit and macros and clean food becomes more ideal. Clean food will usually always work better anyway and is far “healthier”
Really your Post workout shake is your insulin spiker. Pizza actually has fructose (wheat bread has fructose) and sense its rather high in fat it doesn’t spike insulin as well. Donuts are also high in fat and the sugar on top is half fructose so same thing. Clean food like white rice don’t have fructose or tons of fat so they work better and also spike insulin higher.
I think the whole eat junk thing is a good concept, but I also think Kiefer uses it to lure people in. The CBL website where you buy the book claims stuff like “No assembly required, let me do all the work for you” when in reality you have a lot of trial and error trying to make CBL work for you.
Perhaps you are mixing protocols?
Carb nite you can get away with more junk, and you’re looking for that insulin spike (to kick start your metabolism from the week of ULC) not so much for the glycogen replenishment. With backloading you’re looking for both a spike in insulin (which is why you choose high glycemic foods, such as jasmine rice and waxy white potato well cooked) to help build your muscles AND to replenish glycogen. With CBL try to only have junk every once in awhile, and maybe more often once you are seeing results to see how much you can have before it starts hindering goals. Heck, some people have great results on junk, but I wouldn’t call them the norm. This is a bit n=1, just make sure you ingest high insulin spiking carbs that are glucose prominent.
Keifer also has stated that making your own trumps store bought, and in this case you can make sure you create your goodies with dextrose instead of using sucrose, HFCS, or fructose. Make your own cookies instead of purchasing a box of oreos with an ingredient list two inches long. Control the ingredients for a more optimal backload. (See pg 141 CBL 1.0)
That’s pretty good advice, like baking your own stuff. I wonder if it tastes all that good with dextrose or maltrodextrin though 😛
About mixing protocols – the CBL book is filled with references to eating junk – and consequently, has a whole chapter on not to do it as well (Don’t be a fat kid) so really, i’m not sure what to think.
Nick 18@ Calorie counting doesn’t really have anything to do with CBL though, you probably won’t get enough fats to burn fat properly if you’re calorie counting, as for food being “healthier” that’s a really loaded word, I don’t think any food can be claimed to be unhealthy unless you only ever eat mcdonalds. I mean let’s face it, vegetables for one is the most poisonous thing we ingest, they’re filled with carcinogens, they have vitamins which we can get from other non-carcinogenic sources such as animal organs, all they really have going for them is fiber – which can be found in nuts as well.
“Healthy” is really not a word that has any place in scientific nutrition anymore, unless, we’re talking consumption of solely highly processed foods – which only very ignorant people do.
Try to get sub 10 body fat without counting calories even if your using CBL and then come talk to me. Truth be said you have to have some form of calorie counting or at least using some palm fist portion method to measure food when cutting. Furthermore I find it hard to get enough carbs when using CBL and my fats tend to go way over because your eating ULC virtually all day in tell after your workout. In terms of healthier I was referring to the high fructose and inflammatory omega-6 (vegetable oils) content found in processed foods. Keifer agrees that those things are indeed “bad” for you. I don’t even eat vegetables hardly at all and keifer mentions in a podcast that they aren’t really all that necessary. When I say “eat clean” I mean like choosing like rice Chex cereal, potatoes, white rice, over like say a half dozen donuts because it has way less fructose, fat, no gluten, and will cause a way higher insulin spike.
(currently enjoying my 11% body fat because I am cutting and counting calories)
Try to get sub 10 body fat without counting calories even if your using CBL and then come talk to me. Truth be said you have to have some form of calorie counting or at least using some palm fist portion method to measure food when cutting. Furthermore I find it hard to get enough carbs when using CBL and my fats tend to go way over because your eating ULC virtually all day in tell after your workout. In terms of healthier I was referring to the high fructose and inflammatory omega-6 (vegetable oils) content found in processed foods. Keifer agrees that those things are indeed “bad” for you. I don’t even eat vegetables hardly at all and keifer mentions in a podcast that they aren’t really all that necessary. When I say “eat clean” I mean like choosing like rice Chex cereal, potatoes, white rice, over like say a half dozen donuts because it has way less fructose, fat, no gluten, and will cause a way higher insulin spike.
(currently enjoying my 11% body fat because I am cutting and counting calories)
Alright, well I agree about what you call healthy here, no argument there. But I still don’t understand the calorie counting. You’ve read the book, you understand the science behind it – you’re eating low carb during the day where your insulin sensitivity is high.. when you’re eating low carb you’re not getting insulin spikes, when you’re not getting insulin spikes, there’s no tGLUT in position on the surface of your fat cells to store glucose, so you can eat howsoever much fat you want – as long as you keep it low carb enough your fat cells are literally closed for business.
If you’re going low carb, and you’re still not losing weight, that means something is spiking your insulin that isn’t carbs. That’s either:
1) Way too high ingestion of protein leading to protein being broken down as carbs
2) Eating more than one egg per meal, since eggs can cause insulin spikes even with their macros.
3) Drinking sugar-free drinks which contain acesulfame K which also spikes insulin, or alternatively, being one of the people who have bacteria that can break down the otherwise non-digestible sugaralcohols that are considered to be 0 cal (this actually happens).
4) You’re eating too much fructose at night.
5) You’re over training and the stress on your body is causing hormonal distress and it refuses to lose fat.
6) You’re eating too low GI food which instead of spiking and being cleared stays in the body for hours, spilling over into your sleeping time where you again become insulin sensitive and thus store fat.Can you cross all these off then?
Because you can’t combine calorie counting and CBL, because the whole science behind CBL is against the principle of calorie counting, at least as far as I understand.
Also the foods you mentioned will not spike “way higher” than the dirty foods, he specifically says this in the book. White rice, potatoes, french fries, etc. are the best you can get clean, but they aren’t the best you can get full stop. He mentions a client in one of his podcasts who used to mix honey with white rice to get both the stronger GI spike AND get all the easily available glucose from the rice.
I guess we just need to get our hands on some of that Carb Shock, that should allow “cleaner” eating (it’s still funny to call white rice and potatoes clean and not see torches outside your window) but really, it’s also a bit sad because eating junk is fun, and can be done in moderation without problems. Hell as someone mentioned, you could bake your own stuff and not use fructose.
@Zeniues you can certainly overeat calories and that can cause you to not lose fat or gain fat. Kiefer has said this before and it’s something you will discover if you try to eat too many calories. Why else do you think there is a macro chart in the back of the book?
CBL is a nutrient timing guide. Calories still matter, they aren’t a feature in CBL because for most people counting calories is not necessary for their goals if they follow the guidelines in CBL. By going ULC except post-workout, you are doing a pretty good job of restricting calories without counting. The “don’t worry about the fat” principle assumes you have common sense and you aren’t drinking cups of oil or cream. Don’t forget about the “don’t be a fat kid” principle either.
@Zeniues you can certainly overeat calories and that can cause you to not lose fat or gain fat. Kiefer has said this before and it’s something you will discover if you try to eat too many calories. Why else do you think there is a macro chart in the back of the book?
CBL is a nutrient timing guide. Calories still matter, they aren’t a feature in CBL because for most people counting calories is not necessary for their goals if they follow the guidelines in CBL. By going ULC except post-workout, you are doing a pretty good job of restricting calories without counting. The “don’t worry about the fat” principle assumes you have common sense and you aren’t drinking cups of oil or cream. Don’t forget about the “don’t be a fat kid” principle either.
Hmm, i’m anxiously waiting for CBL 2.0 I guess. Kiefer, cool as he is, constantly contradicts himself, will be nice to see it cleaned up in clear cut distinctions.
I don’t think he contradicts himself as much as you are implying, I do however think he gets asked specific questions which warrant specific answers which have different recommendations than slightly different questions. If he were enveloping the questions with a general answer, that answer would be, “It depends.” But since we all hate that answer we get fine tuned responses and we have to take those answers in the specific situation described.
n=1. Everyone is different so there can not be a clear cut answer across the board for every individual.
Everyone is different so there can not be a clear cut answer across the board for every individual.
+1
To be honest, I think that any “cookie cutter” diet plan that guarantees results is bullshit. The great thing about CBL is that Kiefer provides you with information that you can take (or not take) and apply it to your own style. Also, there’s really no way to get around the whole calorie aspect of a diet. Overeat and your body will store the excess (in whatever form it may be). Undereat and your body will tap into your body for fuel (whatever that fuel may be).
Training Log: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vuwHRdBaPVILxxLhXly_N1Ys66Hcwk4j-bM7nvKSLrI/edit?usp=sharing
Everyone is different so there can not be a clear cut answer across the board for every individual.
+1
To be honest, I think that any “cookie cutter” diet plan that guarantees results is bullshit. The great thing about CBL is that Kiefer provides you with information that you can take (or not take) and apply it to your own style. Also, there’s really no way to get around the whole calorie aspect of a diet. Overeat and your body will store the excess (in whatever form it may be). Undereat and your body will tap into your body for fuel (whatever that fuel may be).
If there was no way to get around the calorie aspect then CBL would be useless, it is literally the only thing it offers.
Kiefer relays an anecdote where two of his friends where trying out CBL while counting calories meticulously and it wasn’t working for them at all, he told them to just relax and not overthink it, and it started working.
It’s simply scientifically proven that calories in <-> calories out is not in anyway a true paradigm.
It’s simply scientifically proven that calories in <-> calories out is not in anyway a true paradigm.
Well… sort of.
However, it your caloric intake exceeds your “bottom line” of calories burned (including the CNS/CBL timing, hormonal adjustments, etc. etc.)…
Then indeed… if “bottom line” calories in are equal/greater than calories used, you’re not going to lose weight.
CNS/CBL aren’t magical protocols. You still can’t outrun the laws of physics.
No one is saying you have to count calories. I’ve NEVER counted calories on CBL. However, you simply can’t just eat whatever you want in any amount you want. You must use common sense.
CBL is not useless. The nutrient timing makes a huge difference, however, if you are eating too much or too little, you won’t see the effect of nutrient timing.
Also what CBL tells you is that you can have things like donuts, pizza, and cookies regularly and be in good shape.
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