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Think about it. Everybody I know who has ever taken up distance running has lost a large amount of bodyfat. A kid I went to school with was chubby when we were in Middle School and started to run on the cross country team in high school. He got really lean and lost a ton of bodyfat.My roommate was a pretty scrawny kid when we were little kids. As we turned into our teens, he turned skinny fat from sitting on his ass and eating garbage all day. In high school he also turned into cross country and he got real skinny too. Neither of these guys dieted.Look, I am not trying to be the guy who claims he knows a guy who always wins when he gambles at a casino. I know that running won't give people the physique they want, but both of these kids turned from flabby to limber. Their bodyfat percentage went way down. They certainly weren't muscular, but if what Kiefer said were true, they should have just got fatter and had banana titties. I really want to know if anyone can explain these exceptions. These kids aren't freaks, maybe a minority, but it is something that I am curious. I have seen quite a few of these cases.
I hear what you're saying, and I wondered the same thing, and it got me thinking. I think genetics definitely influence the effects of steady state cardio, just like with anything else. Some people will not see the detrimental effects he talks about. Some will see only slight effects, like gradual muscle loss. His article was also specifically addressing women, and the serious consequences are seen in excess of 20 hrs/week cardio above 65% of max heart rate, if I remember correctly.
Well…*scratch head*…I have to wonder too, because my younger brothers were quite chubby, then they started getting into sports and running…they dropped a lot of weight. Granted no muscle has came about, but their childhood fattiness is gone.
I think it has to do with in the example Kiefer was discussing that the person in question was using running and dieting together to extreme measures. Women I think in more cases than men will take the diet to an extreme, especially in regards to lower calories. You combine that with a lot of running and I think you would have a recipe for disaster, or at least a rebound disaster. I have seen the same thing in regards to several guys picking up distance running and losing a ton of weight. Guys have the advantage of higher testosterone levels so that surely works in a man's favor with that approach. Kiefer was aiming at this approach of "If I just cut my calories down more and run a few more miles a day I'll get down to the leanness I want" and trying to dismiss that as a truly effective approach.Also, remember Kiefer has stated he hates cardio. I'm not sure if this extends from long steady state to short sprints though. I'm sure that colors his research and writing. I think the situation has to do with stress, especially the physical stress of a tremendous amount of exercise and reduced calories. Most people that would do this are around plenty (first world problems) of food and after a while I would imagine your hunger levels would be through the roof. I think the gorging that would take place when someone broke in that state would be ferocious. I would imagine most guys that take up distance running don't try and limit themselves on food too much. They may start eating better, whatever that means in their mind. But, I just don't think most guys would cut their calories as much as a typical woman would. There is a culture mindset that would have to be considered where for men it is ok to eat a lot of food, for women not so much.
I think it has to do with in the example Kiefer was discussing that the person in question was using running and dieting together to extreme measures. Women I think in more cases than men will take the diet to an extreme, especially in regards to lower calories. You combine that with a lot of running and I think you would have a recipe for disaster, or at least a rebound disaster. I have seen the same thing in regards to several guys picking up distance running and losing a ton of weight. Guys have the advantage of higher testosterone levels so that surely works in a man's favor with that approach. Kiefer was aiming at this approach of "If I just cut my calories down more and run a few more miles a day I'll get down to the leanness I want" and trying to dismiss that as a truly effective approach.Also, remember Kiefer has stated he hates cardio. I'm not sure if this extends from long steady state to short sprints though. I'm sure that colors his research and writing. I think the situation has to do with stress, especially the physical stress of a tremendous amount of exercise and reduced calories. Most people that would do this are around plenty (first world problems) of food and after a while I would imagine your hunger levels would be through the roof. I think the gorging that would take place when someone broke in that state would be ferocious. I would imagine most guys that take up distance running don't try and limit themselves on food too much. They may start eating better, whatever that means in their mind. But, I just don't think most guys would cut their calories as much as a typical woman would. There is a culture mindset that would have to be considered where for men it is ok to eat a lot of food, for women not so much.
Yea I agree. Any amount of exercise at 20 hours a week would be detrimental to your health if you were on a diet. I think people know this, but for some reason they give running a pass.
It's like anything people attach to in giving an idea the status of unquestionable. Have a couple good friends who are into distance running and triathlons and I've shown them this article from Kiefer and their reaction was, "What does this guy have against running?" We sit down and discuss it for a while and came to the same conclusion, running can help a lot of people, but that doesn't make it the end all be all of fitness and health. Of course, is anything really?It will come down to the individual's goals and keeping a focus on that. If the goal is fat loss and running is working, fine. If it isn't working, then that person needs to look into why it isn't working or try something else if they want to continue towards their goal. There is a much larger cultural force or push for distance running than anything else I would say. I got caught up in the distance running idea a couple of years ago. Where I live there is a tremendous infrastructure of people and events for distance running. There isn't as much in place for powerlifting or even sprinting instead of distance running. You can find them if you look for them, but for distance running you are really hit in the face with it.
I don't think that its the fact that you CAN NOT lose a large amount of weight from running or doing any type of conditioning for extended periods of time. I think this is probably the easiest way for people. I think the articles and especially all of the research has shown how detrimental it is to your body. It wastes away muscle It messes with your hormone levels sometimes to a very extreme extent Metabolism can never recover I think the point of the article is that you can get more benefits from HIIT if you are just trying to drop body fat, and helps condition your heart. If your are trying to loose a significant amount of weight LISS burns more calories.Just my two cents.
Yea I think Kiefer is just trying to show that it's by far not the best way to do it, if physique is the only goal. It seems that women especially suffer metabolic damage with chronic cardio, and ironically are normally the worst offenders. Road-work, if done correctly, is probably a great tool especially if conditioning is the goal. Joel Jamieson, is a big proponent of road-work. It's all dependent on the context, as most all things are. Anecdotally, I lost a shit-load of fat when i was doing both MISS (20 minute jogs at a decent kip) and HIIT on top of high-frequency weight training. Needless to say I hated life at the time, but at least I had teh abz right 😛
Anecdotally, I lost a shit-load of fat when i was doing both MISS (20 minute jogs at a decent kip) and HIIT on top of high-frequency weight training. Needless to say I hated life at the time, but at least I had teh abz right 😛
What is MISS?
Would this MISS & HIIT be similar to the brisk walking and HIIT Kiefer recommends in Shockwave Ripped?
Yes and no, moderate would be a light jog while low would be the brisk walk. Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
What I meant was seperate sessions. I either went and did intervals, or would just jog around town. I'm not suggesting anyone do this though.
The few examples I see here about people running to lose their chub revolve around (apparently) males who where chubby kids and started some type of program in which they ran.The research is quite clear on this: cardio, at a level of moderate to intense (moderate, in the literature starts at 65% of max heart rate) for 30 minutes plus decrease fat burning in all cells, increase tGLUT concentration but decreases it's mobility in membranes, down regulates metabolism, down regulates testoterone, decreases the thermic effect of food and decreases muscular sensitivity to catecholamines (epinephrine, norephinephrine, specifically). All these effects together are detrimental to anyone, whether their goal is purely aesthetic or not.Well controlled studies have also show that running does not contribute to body fat loss for over 9 months and any loss of fat can be directly attributed to changes in diet.People believe I hate cardio and as such am trying to villainize it, but this is not true. I cycled for many years. And I don't mean took utility rides to the grocery store. I'd average about 400 miles per week on the bike and every time I rode, I rode to get better. So, often, depending on headwinds, I'd average between 18 to 21 mph. I LOVED THOSE RIDES. The zen-like trance I'd achieve watching the pavement pass beneath me in a mottled blur produced a trance-induced euphoria; the same thing as a runner's high, I suspect. My greatest disappointment came when I learned what all this cardio did to my metabolism and how negatively it affected my overall performance. After a year of researching the subject, I hung my 6000$ bike on the wall for 9 years and recently gave it to a friend to use as spare parts.So, you don't have to believe me, you can think I'm exaggerating and that's fine with me. My only goal is to make performance, aesthetics and life easier for everyone who's willing to listen and for those who don't trust me, providing the research to make the facts obvious. As I've said before, don't trust me: you can find this out for yourself.
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