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My comment actually wasn't directed to anyone on this board. It was directed toward the fact that Norton said “someone is just trying to sell you something”.What you have is an enormous amount of people who are looking to be jacked and ripped and no one really knows how to do it. The result is you have people with somewhat similar scientific backgrounds trying to give advice. Sports Nutritionists are trained to increase performance through diet, not give someone a six pack. Athletic Trainers are also trained to increase performance also and typically their athletes are not really concerned with getting down to 5% body fat.Most of the knowledge for this to be a science its own right is there, but very few people like Kiefer that are properly tying it all together.
Intensity Junkie, the statement was made regarding a "throw down" between keifer and norton...by standard bodybuilder I meant a sponsored supplement competitor with little functional strength and a lot of show muscle. I can see by your profile pic that you appear to be a bodybuilder. I didn't mean to offend you. That's why I put "standard" bodybuilder. Perhaps a better word would have been "stereotypical" bodybuilder. Stereotypical meaning 6 meals per day, no carb before bed, steroid using, etc. I certainly didn't mean to imply all bodybuilders were this way. Because you are on a forum like this, discussing a diet like this, I do not believe you would fall under the ospices of "standard" or "stereotypical".Ibobland08, who said it was bad to make money researching and writing? He certainly has to make a living. I will gladly pay for legitimate scientifically based research, diets, and programs. I have 4 certifications including NSCA and ACSM. I wish I could get my money and time back for all of them. The amount of useless outdated information within the fitness profession is disgusting and it's being taught on a daily basis.I'm glad there are people like Keifer attempting to fix things. That's why I responded so critically to a Layne Norton comment. People who push supplements, meal frequency, etc. really frustrate me ( I'm sure I'm not the only one). Plus he always makes the same face while flexing in every picture....lol
Haha it's ok, I was just messing with you. Trust me I don't train like a body builder nor have I ever. I have more of a powerlifting background and do quite a bit of functional training. I've never liked doing the "stereotypical" anything.I completely agree, the certs. I started with were a waste. They gave a good base knowledge that I honestly already had from experience and the internet. At the time though that was the only way a big box gym would hire me. I guess you have to start somewhere thoughWe all agree on the sell out mentality, and we all agree that we understand they need to do what they do to keep the paycheck coming in. Still it sucks because so many great people end up having to go that direction, a person needs to eat after all.
Why is training like a bodybuilder a bad thing? Bodybuilders workout just as hard as everyone else. Personally I think hypertrophy programs are much more exhausting than strength programs. While bodybuilders typically do a lot of isolation work on machines, they rarely replace the big compound moves with them. From all I've seen, the main difference between the way bodybuilders and powerlifters train is that bodybuilders keep the reps a little higher and do isolation work in addition to the main lifts.And functional strength? What does even that mean? Functional for what, heavy labor?
I have always considered “functional” training the lifts that resemble something you may do during everyday life. Deadlifts are a great example of what I would consider a functional exercise. I understand in everyday life, rarely are you going to have to pull 400 lbs of dead weight off the ground. I would, however, think that is more likely than sitting down, resting your upper arms on a slightly slanted board, and curling weight with one arm 10-12 times, switching arms, and repeating such as in a machine preacher curl (insert other machine, exercise description). I do believe that in order to accomplish a more "aesthetic" focused physique that isolation work is important. And I certainly believe that bodybuilders work very hard. I simply believe that there are more "well rounded" athletes that I would probably take in a sport or athletic event. On top of that, bodybuilders do train "functionally" for their particular sport. I guess I should replace simply "functional" strength with "everyday functional" strength...Again, in no way do I think there is anything wrong with how bodybuilders train, especially if it works for them. I know its hard. I have several friends who are bodybuilders and have much better physiques than mine. But they will all tell you I can outrun, out jump, and "out play" them. But they can all "out body build" me. I'm totally ok with that, although I'd love to have half the muscle they carry. That'd be nice...
I'd suppose the athletes with the most functional strength would be strongmen. I have found that grip strength is actually the most useful strength to have for everyday situations that require strength. Rarely in real life is any muscle going to overloaded like it is in any gym exercise, except for grip strength. Strongmen also train a lot with unbalanced weight.
Great point ^^^^ Totally agree, I would think strongmen would have a tremendous amount of functional strength. Lifting such heavy weight, oftentimes lacking balance, and heaving, chucking, pulling, pushing and dragging them would require an amazing amount of athleticism and skill, not to mention pure strength.
Why is training like a bodybuilder a bad thing? Bodybuilders workout just as hard as everyone else. Personally I think hypertrophy programs are much more exhausting than strength programs. While bodybuilders typically do a lot of isolation work on machines, they rarely replace the big compound moves with them. From all I've seen, the main difference between the way bodybuilders and powerlifters train is that bodybuilders keep the reps a little higher and do isolation work in addition to the main lifts.And functional strength? What does even that mean? Functional for what, heavy labor?
Who said that training like a bodybuilder is a bad thing? I have trained as a stereotypical bodybuilder, and I have trained others that was as well. I personally think it is great to do during part of the year and that it is great to do these isolated motions to balance out the body. If you are stepping on stage this type of training is great to bring up body parts that are lacking. As well you are correct, most training like that is much more exhausting than a powerlifting workout over all. Before a competition it gets down right "please kill me", I remember having work outs with high reps, and only 15 seconds between sets, and having to do jumping jacks for those 15 seconds to keep my heart rate up the whole workout. What I was saying, is I do not like to train one way all the time. Also, I did not say functional strength, I said functional training. I am talking about muscle that is not just for show and that you can move through a full ROM. I have plenty of friends who are who are twice my size and I lift just as much as them or more in some areas. I do not just want "show" muscle, I want to be able to be flexible to a point as well as be explosive. Have you ever tried to ask a huge body builder to help you move? My friend was helping me carry a couch and was sweating and panting by the time we got up the stairs.
I see what you are saying Intensity Junkie, but powerlifters are guilty of this of this too. A lot of them train with assistance equipment and limited range of movements, look at their grips when they bench press. Look at how they essentially re-defined the squat simply to lift more weight. Powerlifters are obviously stronger than bodybuilders, but I've heard a lot powelifters say something to the effect “they aren't directly concerned with becoming strong, they just want to increase how much they squat, bench, deadlift”. Most serious powerlifters probably wouldn't care if they couldn't move furniture, but they could bench press 850. Look at the opening of the 5/3/1 book. Wendler says that while he was able squat 1,000 pounds, he really wasn't strong because he couldn't walk down the street without running out of breath.I know no one here was saying that powerlifters are superior, but it seems that a lot of people really like to pick on bodybuilders for a lot things. The "functional strength" thing is one of the things I hear most often. Like it or not getting big is really hard, so is squating 1,000 pounds, having an excellent marathon time, and winning a gold medal in fencing. I think people should respect the athletes, not nit pick on what they can or can't do.
I see what you are saying Intensity Junkie, but powerlifters are guilty of this of this too. A lot of them train with assistance equipment and limited range of movements, look at their grips when they bench press. Look at how they essentially re-defined the squat simply to lift more weight. Powerlifters are obviously stronger than bodybuilders, but I've heard a lot powelifters say something to the effect "they aren't directly concerned with becoming strong, they just want to increase how much they squat, bench, deadlift". Most serious powerlifters probably wouldn't care if they couldn't move furniture, but they could bench press 850. Look at the opening of the 5/3/1 book. Wendler says that while he was able squat 1,000 pounds, he really wasn't strong because he couldn't walk down the street without running out of breath.I know no one here was saying that powerlifters are superior, but it seems that a lot of people really like to pick on bodybuilders for a lot things. The "functional strength" thing is one of the things I hear most often. Like it or not getting big is really hard, so is squating 1,000 pounds, having an excellent marathon time, and winning a gold medal in fencing. I think people should respect the athletes, not nit pick on what they can or can't do.
Completely agree. Everyone should just respect each others goals. Not everyone wants what you want, and they might be thrilled they have achieved what they have.
I meant a sponsored supplement competitor with little functional strength and a lot of show muscle. I can see
You might want to actually see how much Layne can lift. He holds some records raw records if I am not mistaken. So his functional strength seems to be just fine.
Layne Norton has a 700 lb. deadlift. Carry on…-Adam
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