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Does my coffee with C.O. technically break my fast at 14 hrs? Or does the “break” need to entail some sort I of protein?If it does, can use a small amount of plain casein? Say 10g?Thanks for any help.
coffee with some fat does break the fast and you will be better served with WPI over casein.
coffee with some fat does break the fast and you will be better served with WPI over casein.
Ok so I can forgo some solid food for a few more hours? No WPI yet, coming today!
Hello mate,There seems to be lots of confusion circulating around fasting / what breaks the fast at the moment - I'll try and straighten things out as much as I can.The best I can tell;Keifer has never recommended any particular length of fast, all he recommends is that we skip breakfast and ensure that our first meal is protien / fat.There seems to now be a 'set in stone' understanding that we should be fasting for 12 hours, but I can find no evidence that this has come from Keifer (in fact he even mentioned that he never said this on a recent Q&A podcast). This recommendation appears to have come soley from the forums.What he has said is that we should not be fasting for more than 14hoursHaving 10/15g of MCT / Coconut oil with 10g of Isolate does not actually break the fast, but it does keep the MOTr pathway open so will help your body to keep burning bodyfat as fuel.The current forum knowledge seems to be suggesting that if fat burning is your primary focus, then you should omit the Isolate during the 'fasting' period, but again this has not come from Keifer and has no real basis (as far as I can tell) - MCT/Coconut oil and WPI is basically the am accelerator shake and Keifer has said that the 10g of Isolate is not enough to provoke any signifcant insulin response which would interfere with fat burning.So to answer your question, I would take 10/15g of MCT / Coconut oil with 10g of Isolate during the 14 hour fast period (if this is how long you want to fast for) and then break the fast with a real protein / fat meal.I'd steer away from casein personally as it has more carbs than Isolate (which has basically 0), but it probably won't make that mush difference.Hope this helpsMacca
Personally I would omit the casein entirely until your backload. It's more insulinogenic than whey. It won't hurt you to have just coffee and coconut until your whey arrives.
Thanks for the quick feedback guys.I believe I do remember hearing an interview Kiefer did with "propane fitness" on Youtube. I believe thats where he said 14 hrs should be the limit on fasting...heres part 1 and 2, not sure which one has it though.1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLitmnzsDgs2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE2alhSAZeQ
So my goal is fat loss and strength gain. I tend to eat late at night but am sometimes weak/tired in the morning after ULC days if I just drink black coffee until I hit the 12 hour fasting mark. If i stop eating at 11:30pm and drink coffee with CO at 9:30am is that alright or not long enough of a fast?
So my goal is fat loss and strength gain. I tend to eat late at night but am sometimes weak/tired in the morning after ULC days if I just drink black coffee until I hit the 12 hour fasting mark. If i stop eating at 11:30pm and drink coffee with CO at 9:30am is that alright or not long enough of a fast?
yes i would be interested in that, i do about a 14-15 hour fast, but i have a coffee with cream or coconut oil at about the 12 hour mark, hard to know if it is breaking it or not?
So my goal is fat loss and strength gain. I tend to eat late at night but am sometimes weak/tired in the morning after ULC days if I just drink black coffee until I hit the 12 hour fasting mark. If i stop eating at 11:30pm and drink coffee with CO at 9:30am is that alright or not long enough of a fast?
Coffee with HWC will not break the fast as the energy from the HWC will take at least a couple of hours to become available.Coconut oil / MCT oil (10/15g) will help keep the MOTr pathway open - it does not actually break the fast though.CheersMacca
So my goal is fat loss and strength gain. I tend to eat late at night but am sometimes weak/tired in the morning after ULC days if I just drink black coffee until I hit the 12 hour fasting mark. If i stop eating at 11:30pm and drink coffee with CO at 9:30am is that alright or not long enough of a fast?
Coffee with HWC will not break the fast as the energy from the HWC will take at least a couple of hours to become available.Coconut oil / MCT oil (10/15g) will help keep the MOTr pathway open - it does not actually break the fast though.CheersMacca
Ok thanks! Would Splenda or any other sugar have any negative affect on keeping the fat burning going?
So my goal is fat loss and strength gain. I tend to eat late at night but am sometimes weak/tired in the morning after ULC days if I just drink black coffee until I hit the 12 hour fasting mark. If i stop eating at 11:30pm and drink coffee with CO at 9:30am is that alright or not long enough of a fast?
Coffee with HWC will not break the fast as the energy from the HWC will take at least a couple of hours to become available.Coconut oil / MCT oil (10/15g) will help keep the MOTr pathway open - it does not actually break the fast though.CheersMacca
Ok thanks! Would Splenda or any other sugar have any negative affect on keeping the fat burning going?
I wouldnt use it, its a strong possibility that the sweetness will triggering a insulin secretion. then again, Ive heard even the thought of food can do the same thing.....I just keep it too the coconut oil
Kiefer is basically taking intermittent fasting and not elaborating on it deeply. The simplest IF is 16/8 (Fasted/Fed).The 16 hours is 8 while sleeping then the next 8 come from skipping breakfast.If you read around on IF boards or in books on IF anything with >50 calories is considered to "break the fast". Whether this is truly set in stone (researched) or if its just from personal results is unclear. You can look towards leangains.com for some free information on the topic.Many people using IF taking in BCAAs for this reason (they provide protein, but lack calories). I do believe that BCAAs can cause a spike in insulin which you should consider before purchasing/using them.
yea i used leangains. I enjoy Kiefer's protocols much more, but Martin certainly is a bright mind himself.
BCAA do have calories. They are just negligible. If you are concerned about 50 rouge calories than you have more important things to worry about. They are insulinogenic and that is good pre-training if you are not trying to maintain ketosis.
Both protocols definitely have their applications.I've never head of someone gaining fat while using leangains, although you can't pile down icecream on leangains.Its nice to have a few days of gorging out on carbs using CBL. It also helps you build muscle so its not just mindless craving.I think leangains is a little more religious about not breaking the fast (limiting the number of calories).I think Kiefer thinks it doesn't matter (in terms of calories) but more in insulin response. Pure fat isn't going to cause much of a response (like heavy cream) but if you were eating something that significantly spiked insulin Kiefer would consider that to "break the fast" AFAIK.On the safe side don't do it. On the less strict side just avoid anything with an insulin response. There both like fasting (in the same way the Ketogenic diet is similar to fasting).
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