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I was wondering if all these negative effects of steady state cardio might not apply (as much) if you are fat-adapted / ketogenic.You might not burn your muscles since your body has switched over to ketones and does not need to do gluconeogenesis.You might also not crash your hormone levels because you still have plenty of fat left for hormone production.Did any of the studies Kiefer refers to when talking about the negative effects of steady state cardio consider this?There are elite triathletes which are fat-adapted btw so it is possible to perform on a very high level running on ketones.
I was wondering if all these negative effects of steady state cardio might not apply (as much) if you are fat-adapted / ketogenic.You might not burn your muscles since your body has switched over to ketones and does not need to do gluconeogenesis.You might also not crash your hormone levels because you still have plenty of fat left for hormone production.Did any of the studies Kiefer refers to when talking about the negative effects of steady state cardio consider this?There are elite triathletes which are fat-adapted btw so it is possible to perform on a very high level running on ketones.
Look at Ben Greenfield's site, you'll see the answer there.
I was wondering if all these negative effects of steady state cardio might not apply (as much) if you are fat-adapted / ketogenic.You might not burn your muscles since your body has switched over to ketones and does not need to do gluconeogenesis.You might also not crash your hormone levels because you still have plenty of fat left for hormone production.Did any of the studies Kiefer refers to when talking about the negative effects of steady state cardio consider this?There are elite triathletes which are fat-adapted btw so it is possible to perform on a very high level running on ketones.
Part of the "negative effects" you are referring to, such as muscle mass loss, is actually part of the adaptation to endurance activity. When you are doing endurance training, you adapt to it by getting rid of the useless fast twitch muscle that you don't need and that is just extra weight. That is why you lose it. While I'm sure diet can be used to alter this adaptation to an extent, in the end of the day this is an adaptation that will be made.Need I also mention that endurance training will make it harder to gain strength and it will reduce power output. Remember power and endurance are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Trying to develop both will lead to poor results in both, especially power which seems to be more negatively affected by endurance training than vice-versa.
I was wondering if all these negative effects of steady state cardio might not apply (as much) if you are fat-adapted / ketogenic.You might not burn your muscles since your body has switched over to ketones and does not need to do gluconeogenesis.You might also not crash your hormone levels because you still have plenty of fat left for hormone production.Did any of the studies Kiefer refers to when talking about the negative effects of steady state cardio consider this?There are elite triathletes which are fat-adapted btw so it is possible to perform on a very high level running on ketones.
Part of the "negative effects" you are referring to, such as muscle mass loss, is actually part of the adaptation to endurance activity. When you are doing endurance training, you adapt to it by getting rid of the useless fast twitch muscle that you don't need and that is just extra weight. That is why you lose it. While I'm sure diet can be used to alter this adaptation to an extent, in the end of the day this is an adaptation that will be made.Need I also mention that endurance training will make it harder to gain strength and it will reduce power output. Remember power and endurance are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Trying to develop both will lead to poor results in both, especially power which seems to be more negatively affected by endurance training than vice-versa.
While I do agree to an extent, it can be done. It just requires a good balance, and no junk miles being done. Also, limiting the long slow work to once every 7-14 days.For the OP, if you do want to look into endurance training and mixing it with strength I'd suggest looking into Alex Viada. However I would also suggest not trying to do it with a Ketogenic diet. You will need full glycogen stores as much as possible.
Quote:. However I would also suggest not trying to do it with a Ketogenic diet. You will need full glycogen stores as much as possible.It does not look that way:Prof. Tim Noakes - 'LCHF for Elite Athletes': http://youtu.be/6WVLrQmnnAYI was wondering if all these negative effects of steady state cardio might not apply (as much) if you are fat-adapted / ketogenic.You might not burn your muscles since your body has switched over to ketones and does not need to do gluconeogenesis.You might also not crash your hormone levels because you still have plenty of fat left for hormone production.Did any of the studies Kiefer refers to when talking about the negative effects of steady state cardio consider this?There are elite triathletes which are fat-adapted btw so it is possible to perform on a very high level running on ketones.
Part of the "negative effects" you are referring to, such as muscle mass loss, is actually part of the adaptation to endurance activity. When you are doing endurance training, you adapt to it by getting rid of the useless fast twitch muscle that you don't need and that is just extra weight. That is why you lose it. While I'm sure diet can be used to alter this adaptation to an extent, in the end of the day this is an adaptation that will be made.Need I also mention that endurance training will make it harder to gain strength and it will reduce power output. Remember power and endurance are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Trying to develop both will lead to poor results in both, especially power which seems to be more negatively affected by endurance training than vice-versa.
While I do agree to an extent, it can be done. It just requires a good balance, and no junk miles being done. Also, limiting the long slow work to once every 7-14 days.For the OP, if you do want to look into endurance training and mixing it with strength I'd suggest looking into Alex Viada. However I would also suggest not trying to do it with a Ketogenic diet. You will need full glycogen stores as much as possible.
It's all about the dosage Trevor. Of course doing a small to moderate amount of volume of endurance training will have a small effect on muscle mass, strength, and power for most people. What I was getting at was that it doesn't matter what diet you are on, you can't be Ronnie Coleman, Andrey Malanichev, or Usain Bolt and train for marathons.
Quote:. However I would also suggest not trying to do it with a Ketogenic diet. You will need full glycogen stores as much as possible.It does not look that way:Prof. Tim Noakes - 'LCHF for Elite Athletes': http://youtu.be/6WVLrQmnnAYI think what Trevor means is if you are doing endurance training in conjunction with high volume strength/hypertrophy training. If you are doing strictly endurance training, then yes, I would say being ketogenic during training is certainly desirable.
I was wondering if all these negative effects of steady state cardio might not apply (as much) if you are fat-adapted / ketogenic.You might not burn your muscles since your body has switched over to ketones and does not need to do gluconeogenesis.You might also not crash your hormone levels because you still have plenty of fat left for hormone production.Did any of the studies Kiefer refers to when talking about the negative effects of steady state cardio consider this?There are elite triathletes which are fat-adapted btw so it is possible to perform on a very high level running on ketones.
Part of the "negative effects" you are referring to, such as muscle mass loss, is actually part of the adaptation to endurance activity. When you are doing endurance training, you adapt to it by getting rid of the useless fast twitch muscle that you don't need and that is just extra weight. That is why you lose it. While I'm sure diet can be used to alter this adaptation to an extent, in the end of the day this is an adaptation that will be made.Need I also mention that endurance training will make it harder to gain strength and it will reduce power output. Remember power and endurance are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Trying to develop both will lead to poor results in both, especially power which seems to be more negatively affected by endurance training than vice-versa.
While I do agree to an extent, it can be done. It just requires a good balance, and no junk miles being done. Also, limiting the long slow work to once every 7-14 days.For the OP, if you do want to look into endurance training and mixing it with strength I'd suggest looking into Alex Viada. However I would also suggest not trying to do it with a Ketogenic diet. You will need full glycogen stores as much as possible.
It's all about the dosage Trevor. Of course doing a small to moderate amount of volume of endurance training will have a small effect on muscle mass, strength, and power for most people. What I was getting at was that it doesn't matter what diet you are on, you can't be Ronnie Coleman, Andrey Malanichev, or Usain Bolt and train for marathons.
I 100% agree, I just wanted to be sure to through that out there.
Quote:. However I would also suggest not trying to do it with a Ketogenic diet. You will need full glycogen stores as much as possible.It does not look that way:Prof. Tim Noakes - 'LCHF for Elite Athletes': http://youtu.be/6WVLrQmnnAYThat's nice and all, but in practice if you are doing both power and endurance it simply doesn't pan out.
Quote:. However I would also suggest not trying to do it with a Ketogenic diet. You will need full glycogen stores as much as possible.It does not look that way:Prof. Tim Noakes - 'LCHF for Elite Athletes': http://youtu.be/6WVLrQmnnAY
I think what Trevor means is if you are doing endurance training in conjunction with high volume strength/hypertrophy training. If you are doing strictly endurance training, then yes, I would say being ketogenic during training is certainly desirable.Bingo.
I think what Trevor means is if you are doing endurance training in conjunction with high volume strength/hypertrophy training. If you are doing strictly endurance training, then yes, I would say being ketogenic during training is certainly desirable.
Bingo.
I see. But why?
I think what Trevor means is if you are doing endurance training in conjunction with high volume strength/hypertrophy training. If you are doing strictly endurance training, then yes, I would say being ketogenic during training is certainly desirable.
Bingo.
I see. But why?
Multiple reasons. Hormonal, cellular signals, specific adaptations, fuel demands.
I think what Trevor means is if you are doing endurance training in conjunction with high volume strength/hypertrophy training. If you are doing strictly endurance training, then yes, I would say being ketogenic during training is certainly desirable.
Bingo.
I see. But why?
Strength/Power training requires ATP as an energy source, as ATP is what fuels fast twitch muscles. If there is no glycogen, the body will have a very, very hard time generating ATP in the amounts needed.It is theoretically possible to generate glycogen and ATP directly from fatty acids, which is why many keto advocates claim that carbs are not needed even for high intensity activities, but in practice this isn't the case. Anyone who has worked with non-endurance athletes will attest that carbohydrates are an absolute must.
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