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Hi all, just wanted to get some honest opinions from those that have been doing CNS for extended periods of time with success. I have the books, try to keep up with all the videos and podcasts and yet I am still confused on the Protein to Fat ratio for CNS. I have been doing CBL for a little while now but want to switch to CNS to lose some fat before Christmas while still maintaining muscle mass. My current stats and workout routine are: 195lb, approx 15% bf and I do Wendler 5/3/1, 4 days a week with one or two HIIT sessions. I am just so confused at this point to what I should start off with for my macros on CNS. I would like to get down to 180lb but I don't know if I should start out with the .5 to 1g F/P ratio (90g Fat, 180g Protein) or should I start with a 1 to 1g ratio (180g Fat, 180g Protein). I know I am probably going to have to experement with it to see what works for my body but just getting opinions on a starting point for now would be a plus. It is confusing because some threads and talks from Kiefer have suggested the .5 to 1 while others the 1 to 1. I could see an arguement for either one but I am leaning towards the 1 to 1 for now just because of the 5/3/1 lifting routine can be brutal and I want to make sure I have enough energy and don't stunt my motabilism by having too much of a caloric deficit. As a little supplemental info, I do plan on keeping my Carb Nites to around 500-700g carbs with clean foods at the beginning (rice, sweet potato, fruity pebbles and rice milk) with maybe a dirty last meal (pancakes, ice cream, etc). Any advice would be greatly, GREATLY appreciated because I really want to make a good impression going back home for Christmas. I am in the military and I haven't seen most of my family for over a year and a half and want to be in good shape when I do. Thanks in advance.
Start with .5:1, if results and/or energy are lacking after a few weeks bump it to .75:1, and so on.
The .5g/BW for fat would be great going into contest prep or not training. I recommend going higher with fat intake. Sticking to meat fats, coconut products, butter, and MCT Oil. You'll be surprised how well that will work better for you in terms of losing body fat and health. For protein well, try to get at least .8g/BW in whole foods alone, close to 1g/BW for the entire day including any PWO Shakes. For example, I need/like to get 130-135g of protein from whole foods based upon what I just mentioned, training days will get an extra 30g because of the PWO Shake. That is the minimum though, I do tend to go higher. Fats is good with being .75g/BW if not higher.
Start with .5:1, if results and/or energy are lacking after a few weeks bump it to .75:1, and so on.
This is key...Also, for Carb Nite, it's 1 to 1 by CALORIE, which equals(appx) .5 to 1 in grams. This could be where your confusion is coming from! 🙂
for Carb Nite, it's 1 to 1 by CALORIE, which equals(appx) .5 to 1 in grams.
Waiiit a minute - I've been using 1:1 in grams! So not only eating over my macros, but wayyy over my macros?If anyone could tell me where this info is in the book, I'd be grateful. I'm skimming back and fore but can't find it. :-
for Carb Nite, it's 1 to 1 by CALORIE, which equals(appx) .5 to 1 in grams.
Waiiit a minute - I've been using 1:1 in grams! So not only eating over my macros, but wayyy over my macros?If anyone could tell me where this info is in the book, I'd be grateful. I'm skimming back and fore but can't find it. :-
There are no set macros for Carb Nite. .5:1 is a recommended starting point. In certain situations Kiefer says to do damn near the opposite and consume very little protein with a lot of fat.As long as you are consuming under 30 g of carbs per day and eating a fair amount of fat, you are doing Carb Nite. Your fat:protein ratio is completely up to you.
I have never gone by the F:P ratio as grams. I think the ratio is more commonly referred to as a gram ratio. In terms of this a .75:1 would be only 15g of fat per 46g protein. Which is to low of fat.
There are no set macros for Carb Nite. .5:1 is a recommended starting point. In certain situations Kiefer says to do damn near the opposite and consume very little protein with a lot of fat.As long as you are consuming under 30 g of carbs per day and eating a fair amount of fat, you are doing Carb Nite. Your fat:protein ratio is completely up to you.
Right, ok thanks! I freaked out a little there... I am always under 30g carb, with far higher fat to protein. All good ::)
for Carb Nite, it's 1 to 1 by CALORIE, which equals(appx) .5 to 1 in grams.
Waiiit a minute - I've been using 1:1 in grams! So not only eating over my macros, but wayyy over my macros?If anyone could tell me where this info is in the book, I'd be grateful. I'm skimming back and fore but can't find it. :-
Here is where Kiefer mentions protein and fat ratios.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOJmaNQ2gOU
for Carb Nite, it's 1 to 1 by CALORIE, which equals(appx) .5 to 1 in grams.
Waiiit a minute - I've been using 1:1 in grams! So not only eating over my macros, but wayyy over my macros?If anyone could tell me where this info is in the book, I'd be grateful. I'm skimming back and fore but can't find it. :-
There are no set macros for Carb Nite. .5:1 is a recommended starting point. In certain situations Kiefer says to do damn near the opposite and consume very little protein with a lot of fat.As long as you are consuming under 30 g of carbs per day and eating a fair amount of fat, you are doing Carb Nite. Your fat:protein ratio is completely up to you.
+1 .. Precisely. It's not in the book, but the whole .5:1 being the recommended starting point is in one of the Biojacked podcasts.
for Carb Nite, it's 1 to 1 by CALORIE, which equals(appx) .5 to 1 in grams.
Waiiit a minute - I've been using 1:1 in grams! So not only eating over my macros, but wayyy over my macros?If anyone could tell me where this info is in the book, I'd be grateful. I'm skimming back and fore but can't find it. :-
Here is where Kiefer mentions protein and fat ratios.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOJmaNQ2gOU
THANK YOU for posting this. I have been looking for this video for ever!! I was looking for part at the end where he recommends whole foods over protein shakes in meals. Didnt know it was hidden in the fat:protein ratio video! haha
for Carb Nite, it's 1 to 1 by CALORIE, which equals(appx) .5 to 1 in grams.
Waiiit a minute - I've been using 1:1 in grams! So not only eating over my macros, but wayyy over my macros?If anyone could tell me where this info is in the book, I'd be grateful. I'm skimming back and fore but can't find it. :-
I also had misunderstood this point, so you're not alone. Actually, I think I went for a whole month/month and a half before I realized it was 1:1 calorically. ::) BUT -I still got great results! I actually started stalling a little bit once I pulled my fats back down, I now just don't worry about it and just make sure I get my fats in.So, honest mistake, everyone makes a few. 😉
That is a reason I love this forum! There is still a lot of stuff to filter out like most forums but there are many nuggets of truth and I find a couple every day.
Thanks to everyone who replied here. Based on what was said, I think I will start by keeping the fat between .5->.75 and see how it goes. I definitely want to loose fat as quickly and efficiently as possible, but not at the expense of my strenght goals. I will continue to hit the weights hard with the 5/3/1 routine and increase the fat based off of how I am recovering. My follow up question though is, how long would you wait if you are feeling sluggish after workouts to bump up the fat? I mean if I feel crappy after just two or three workouts should I try to bump it up or go a whole week or two and guage my energy levels from there. I am using energy levels as guage primarily becuase I never really understood the whole 'look in the mirror to see if you are tight or soft' thing. I just don't want to confuse having a few less than stellar workout days with automatically resorting to increasing fat content. Thanks again for all the input thus far and I hope this post has been beneficial to others.
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