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I thought I'd start a thread on flexibility. Flexibility is important in a number of sports and has its relevance. I wanted to discuss stretching for gaining maximum flexibility while achieving maximum strength. I'll try my best and hopefully others can jump in? There are several types of flexibility. There's static, the ability to hold a stretched position with your hands; dynamic flexibility, the ability to reach a position from the momentum of active movement (like kicking); and passive flexibility, which is the ability to reach a position without any real use of energy. Don't mistake these definitions for dynamic, passive and static stretching. The most desirable flexibility is passive flexibility (in my opinion), which means you can achieve full range of motion without the stretch reflex:
The stretch reflex (myotatic reflex) is a muscle contraction in response to stretching within the muscle. It is a monosynaptic reflex which provides automatic regulation of skeletal muscle length.
When the muscle is stretched, the muscle spindles also stretch. Muscle spindles are the receptors within the muscle which detect a change of length. These receptors send a signal to the central nervous system, the brain and spinal cord, to regulate the contraction. The stretch reflex is activated to resist this lengthening which causes the large muscles surrounding the area contract or tighten. Sudden stretches cause a stronger reflex.The stretch reflex is a protective response to avoid injury to the muscles by limiting the amount of lengthening. It also helps regulate and maintain muscle tone. Muscle tone is the continuous contraction of muscles which allows the body to maintain positions and posture.
The stretch reflex is a way for your body to protect itself, and relates to muscle elasticity, which is defined as the recoil of the muscles in response to stretching (aka, the myotatic reflex), and works in conjunction with muscle extensibility, which is the literal lengthening of the muscle, which has to do with the cross-bridge theory of myosin and actin (http://ajpcell.physiology.org/content/299/1/C14.full), and newly discovered myomesin (end of post), which I guess would change the cross-bridge theory completely if I understand it correctly. About reciprocal inhibition:
When the central nervous system sends a message to the agonist muscle (muscle causing movement) to contract, the tension in the antagonist muscle (muscle opposing movement) is inhibited by impulses from motor neurons, and thus must simultaneously relax. This neural phenomenon is called reciprocal inhibition.
This leads to stretching techniques, such as proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF) stretching.
The literature regarding PNF has made the technique the optimal stretching method when the aim is to increase range of motion. Generally an active PNF stretch involves a shortening contraction of the opposing muscle to place the target muscle on stretch, this is followed by a isometric contraction of the target muscle. PNF is employed to make quick gains in range of motion to help athletes improve performance.
Flexibility and StrengthStretching for long periods of time can cause immediate reductions in strength, while dynamic strength has been shown to cause no immediate reductions in strength and can even improve performance (I'll add studies later...). But I'm not particularly interested in using stretching during or for performance. I want to know if flexibility and strength can be complementary assets or if one will hinder the other. Over the years I've been told if your'e strong, you're probably not flexible--and if you're really flexible, you're probably not strong. This article goes over strength training and one study showed how it improved flexibility: http://www.coachkaehler.com/new/2009/03/25/does-strength-training-help-improve-your-flexibility/Reciprocal inhibition is a logical culprit for this, but I don't really know. Last...This is cool: http://www.research-in-germany.de/93436/2012-02-15-scientists-discover-new-mechanism-for-muscular-elasticity.htmlI found it while I was looking things up. Apparently a new muscle protein has been found called myomesin. It retains an alpha helix structure that stretches 2.5 times it's original length via helical elongation. In the article it's said to help further explain how muscles can be highly elastic in "highly organized biological structures." From this article it said that there's not much known about flexibility and how our muscle are elastic. Just what I wanted to hear. I'll keep modifying and adding to this post even if no one replies. I think it's important!
Thanks for the post… It's definatlye interesting. I am tighter than a virgin on prom night (especially lower back and hams). I try and stretch every morning after a little warm up. I think it helps a little with all the stiffness.
I can do the splits, used to dance, have done various circus/gymnastics type hobbies. My advice? Do movement based flexibility work aka dynamic stretching. Don't hold stretches for more than a split second. Don't sit in stretches.Also, stretching is not a warmup. A warmup is a warmup. Do full ROM in every exercise you do. Do single sided movements as they encourage the body to learn to twist more.
I can do the splits, used to dance, have done various circus/gymnastics type hobbies. My advice? Do movement based flexibility work aka dynamic stretching. Don't hold stretches for more than a split second. Don't sit in stretches.Also, stretching is not a warmup. A warmup is a warmup. Do full ROM in every exercise you do. Do single sided movements as they encourage the body to learn to twist more.
(Read my bias as a dance teacher in 3...2...) I found the greatest flexibility I ever achieved was in senior year of high school, when I dedicated myself to stretching a few times a week and performed a dynamic warmup, mainly warming up the hips and then continuing with about an hour of isometric stretching. It was extremely time consuming but I had never been more flexible. I was pushing my splits way past parallel and my italian fouettes (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maazg0v5uy1rtaqx8o1_500.gif) looked fantastic. From my competitive dancing friends, the least flexible were the ones who statically stretched in their splits. They would tell me they held their splits every night for up to an hour, trying to go lower and lower. I was known for my flexibility back in the day, and my best splits came from isometrically stretching the hamstrings/hips/quads/whatever (wish I knew more muscle names) in isolation and doing so in ways that lengthened in both a parallel standing position and a turned out standing position. I'd like to come up with a routine that I can perform perhaps 2 times a week and can give me maximal flexibility. If I do start one, I'll make sure I write another post in this thread what it is and for what explicit purposes it serves.
As a martial artist, I can tell you that flexibility is innate for some people, but for others it takes practice and time. Ease into things like the splits, practice every day. You also need to RELAX! You cannot be tense in deep stretches, you will injure / pull something. Also, never warm-up with static stretching!I work on splits / stretches AFTER I've been through a martial arts class or fighting session.Take it from a guy who can kick the head of guys taller than myself (and I am 6 feet). I can kick over some people's heads. Flexibility is developed.Cory
As a martial artist, I can tell you that flexibility is innate for some people, but for others it takes practice and time. Ease into things like the splits, practice every day. You also need to RELAX! You cannot be tense in deep stretches, you will injure / pull something. Also, never warm-up with static stretching!I work on splits / stretches AFTER I've been through a martial arts class or fighting session.Take it from a guy who can kick the head of guys taller than myself (and I am 6 feet). I can kick over some people's heads. Flexibility is developed.
I agree not to static stretch, but I don't know if I would suggest stretching every day...maybe 3x a week, when you really feel limber after a HIIT session or something. I generally don't stretch on the same days I lift. Kicking above people's heads, easy work (for SOME, lol, maybe not others). Kicking and getting your shin to touch your own head, different story! Being able to slowly place your your leg in that position, incredibly hard!One thing ballet dancers always practice is the adagio developpe. In all my years I've never been able to make that look good...http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj469mEOL11qgxwpy.jpg
Yep. Generally I am just anti-static stretching.
Yep. Generally I am just anti-static stretching.
I can honestly say static stretching never improved my flexibility.
My flexibility greatly increased from just lifting weights.
Really? I've found the opposite. I was wondering about that. Maybe it's all about where you're starting from. The flexibility I try to maintain is an impractical, and kinda non-functional range of motion.
My flexibility greatly increased from just lifting weights.
Really? I've found the opposite. I was wondering about that. Maybe it's all about where you're starting from. The flexibility I try to maintain is an impractical, and kinda non-functional range of motion.
You're flexibility shouldn't decrease from lifting weights, it won't until you get extremely muscular, but I am not referring to crazy escape artist stuff, I am just talking about stuff like touching your toes and moving your arms behind your head.If you are trying to do really odd stuff like sticking your head in between your legs, then yea lifting could cause a problem because you have muscle mass getting in the way. I guess it depends on what you are trying to do.
My flexibility greatly increased from just lifting weights.
Really? I've found the opposite. I was wondering about that. Maybe it's all about where you're starting from. The flexibility I try to maintain is an impractical, and kinda non-functional range of motion.
You're flexibility shouldn't decrease from lifting weights, it won't until you get extremely muscular, but I am not referring to crazy escape artist stuff, I am just talking about stuff like touching your toes and moving your arms behind your head.If you are trying to do really odd stuff like sticking your head in between your legs, then yea lifting could cause a problem because you have muscle mass getting in the way. I guess it depends on what you are trying to do.
Yep, my flexibility does not decrease, but my speed can if I get too large. I know my threshold.As for extreme muscularity + flexibility... check out Kai Greene.Cory
My flexibility greatly increased from just lifting weights.
Really? I've found the opposite. I was wondering about that. Maybe it's all about where you're starting from. The flexibility I try to maintain is an impractical, and kinda non-functional range of motion.
You're flexibility shouldn't decrease from lifting weights, it won't until you get extremely muscular, but I am not referring to crazy escape artist stuff, I am just talking about stuff like touching your toes and moving your arms behind your head.If you are trying to do really odd stuff like sticking your head in between your legs, then yea lifting could cause a problem because you have muscle mass getting in the way. I guess it depends on what you are trying to do.
Yep, my flexibility does not decrease, but my speed can if I get too large. I know my threshold.As for extreme muscularity + flexibility... check out Kai Greene.Cory
Is he flexible or not flexible?
My flexibility greatly increased from just lifting weights.
Really? I've found the opposite. I was wondering about that. Maybe it's all about where you're starting from. The flexibility I try to maintain is an impractical, and kinda non-functional range of motion.
You're flexibility shouldn't decrease from lifting weights, it won't until you get extremely muscular, but I am not referring to crazy escape artist stuff, I am just talking about stuff like touching your toes and moving your arms behind your head.If you are trying to do really odd stuff like sticking your head in between your legs, then yea lifting could cause a problem because you have muscle mass getting in the way. I guess it depends on what you are trying to do.
Yep, my flexibility does not decrease, but my speed can if I get too large. I know my threshold.As for extreme muscularity + flexibility... check out Kai Greene.Cory
Is he flexible or not flexible?
Kai Greene does shit at his size (2nd Place @ the Mr. O) that I cannot contemplate.Full splits, hand-stands w/ splits, etc.Cory
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