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Id like to commit to getting rid of the fat and then getting bigger. I thought this was all based on hormones and not calories?
hey man,I think what it comes down to is experimentation, no body on here can give you a straight set of numbers to follow everyday because everyone is different, contributing factors are stress levels, training intesnity/frequency and how active you are during the day. But don't feel lke you have to follow some sort of set numbers but what I will say is to listen to their food choices for a start. Chicken in general is not the greatest fat source, neither are highly proccessed sausages, if you follow the logs on here of the guys who are succesful with the diet their food choices are basically Beef, bacon, eggs, CO/MCT oil, butter and the occasional cheeses with their shakes only PWO. Start there if you feel beat up and tired eat more fat, if progress stalls either up fats or drop them and then play with the numbers until you see progress.
GO Heavy, one of my three main meals are chicken wings... but I read that chicken wings are fairly close in fat and protein. In fact, Kiefer lists them as N (neutral, I think its like 7g and 9g) in CNS. I only add franks red hot sauce and a little bit of butter (to get that fat protein at 1:1). So whats wrong with that? I have 8 wings, so theres about 750 calories with the butter. What are these inflammatory fats you speak of?
As in fats that cause inflammation in the body. Keifer talked about it somewhere I can't remember atm..maybe someone like Big Tex could help offer a better explanation. (Appreciate it Tex!)It is about hormonal processes but that doesn't mean there aren't limits. The best thing and big problem with this diet is what you get are lego pieces and a template and you have to build the "model" from there. To answer your first question, "what's wrong" is you're not getting less fat lol. So something you're doing is wrong. We can give you our best guess from our own experience and whatever research searching we've done but the only way you can really learn is experimenting on yourself to find what works for you. Which hot dogs and wings every night..is not = Mike's idea is a good one it has bacon in it lol but you don't necessarily have to be as strict as basically the detox diet. But the bottom line is the less muscle you have, the less you can get away with when it comes to things like downing chicken wings and hotdogs, bologna and what not.
GO Heavy, one of my three main meals are chicken wings... but I read that chicken wings are fairly close in fat and protein. In fact, Kiefer lists them as N (neutral, I think its like 7g and 9g) in CNS. I only add franks red hot sauce and a little bit of butter (to get that fat protein at 1:1). So whats wrong with that? I have 8 wings, so theres about 750 calories with the butter. What are these inflammatory fats you speak of?
As in fats that cause inflammation in the body. Keifer talked about it somewhere I can't remember atm..maybe someone like Big Tex could help offer a better explanation. (Appreciate it Tex!)It is about hormonal processes but that doesn't mean there aren't limits. The best thing and big problem with this diet is what you get are lego pieces and a template and you have to build the "model" from there. To answer your first question, "what's wrong" is you're not getting less fat lol. So something you're doing is wrong. We can give you our best guess from our own experience and whatever research searching we've done but the only way you can really learn is experimenting on yourself to find what works for you. Which hot dogs and wings every night..is not = Mike's idea is a good one it has bacon in it lol but you don't necessarily have to be as strict as basically the detox diet. But the bottom line is the less muscle you have, the less you can get away with when it comes to things like downing chicken wings and hotdogs, bologna and what not.
+1 the fats your talking about are basically plant fats,specifically monounsaturated as I recall, so the ones in olive oil, mayo, most salad dressing, almonds etc they are very easily stored as body fat and cause bloating and inflamation in a good chunk of people. Yeah exactly people like Lumberjacked carry a ton of muscle mass with little body fat so people like them can be a lot more choosy with their food choices
OP take it from someone who got terrible results using chicken as lunch with ghee and veggies. Please don't use chicken, I did lose 8lbs like you but “stalled” and started gaining weight in the next few weeks. Now I am doing Beef exclusively, getting much better results. Oh also monitoring my CN's as well. I am 223lbs @ 27% and unfortunately can't get away with crazy CNs. My log with before and revised CNS plan.http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/forum/index.php?topic=4068.0
GO Heavy, one of my three main meals are chicken wings... but I read that chicken wings are fairly close in fat and protein. In fact, Kiefer lists them as N (neutral, I think its like 7g and 9g) in CNS. I only add franks red hot sauce and a little bit of butter (to get that fat protein at 1:1). So whats wrong with that? I have 8 wings, so theres about 750 calories with the butter. What are these inflammatory fats you speak of?
As in fats that cause inflammation in the body. Keifer talked about it somewhere I can't remember atm..maybe someone like Big Tex could help offer a better explanation. (Appreciate it Tex!)It is about hormonal processes but that doesn't mean there aren't limits. The best thing and big problem with this diet is what you get are lego pieces and a template and you have to build the "model" from there. To answer your first question, "what's wrong" is you're not getting less fat lol. So something you're doing is wrong. We can give you our best guess from our own experience and whatever research searching we've done but the only way you can really learn is experimenting on yourself to find what works for you. Which hot dogs and wings every night..is not = Mike's idea is a good one it has bacon in it lol but you don't necessarily have to be as strict as basically the detox diet. But the bottom line is the less muscle you have, the less you can get away with when it comes to things like downing chicken wings and hotdogs, bologna and what not.
+1 the fats your talking about are basically plant fats,specifically monounsaturated as I recall, so the ones in olive oil, mayo, most salad dressing, almonds etc they are very easily stored as body fat and cause bloating and inflamation in a good chunk of people. Yeah exactly people like Lumberjacked carry a ton of muscle mass with little body fat so people like them can be a lot more choosy with their food choices
Aw shucks, I'm blushing Mike. 😛Basically, plant based mono's are good...in moderation. A table spoon or two a day, fine. A table spoon or two for every meal? Not so fine. As Mike said, it's essentially the bodies "preferred" fat to store as adipose tissue as it's very readily converted. Your best bet for fats are saturated, but more and MOST importantly Polyunsaturate's like Omega 3's and a lesser extent Omega 6. Examples include;-Salmon and other cold water fish-Grass fed beef-Pasture butter-Organic/Free range Pork-Game meat (if you can find fatty cuts)Choices that aren't so good as sole protein/fat sources and should in general be an "occasional" thing;-Processed meat's-Cheese's-Faux cheese dressings/dressing's in general-Nuts/Seeds-Chicken/Turkey even if it is a fatty cut.Do you see the possible problem here now? What is the bulk of your protein/fat sources made up of, list 1 or list 2? Fix that and if you don't get better results, I'll eat my own hat and I use it while training every day and haven't washed it.Also if you can answer the questions I asked on the first page I can give you a better helping hand if you still want/need it.All the best with it matey!
Think of your Ultra Low Carb days as a starter to your carb nite. In other words, perhaps look at the meal frequency and reduce or look as the snacks as optional. Experiment with 4 meals a day namely – 1. morning coffee with cream, 2. late breakfast 3. lunch 4. Dinner. Once you're happy with the frequency, adjust the portions, for example; 3 sausages, 3 slices of bacon and 2 eggs. The next day try 2 links, 2 rashers and 2 eggs and see how you feel - do you feel as full or do you still feel hungry an hour later?If you like cheese and you're enjoying the inclusion of it, great, but limit it to maybe one meal a day and around 30-40g serving. Have you tried a fibre supplement such as Psyllium? It's ok if not, you can get fibre from veg, salad, nuts(again moderate these - a 30g serving of almonds is a good portion), check the book for other sources. Don't be tempted to go out and buy a shit-tonne of veg you're not going to eat. Variety is good, but sticking to what you enjoy will always trump that(not necessarily to your advantage but keeping it simple is advantageous).
cericson, I'm the same way as you. I weigh 250, I started out at 262 and I fluctuate from 250 to 255 back to 250 again, this was for the past two months. I used to eat a lot of sugar subsistence, but after careful study I realized that whenever you spike up your insulin (which is what sugar subsistence does) you stop oxidizing fat. Later did I find out that sugar substitutes should have been accounted for as a carbohydrate and since removed them from my diet.. anyways I digress.I eat a lot of veggies within my meals. Fibers actually produce small chain carbohydrates that are fermented by the bacteria in your intestines, which are readily absorbed by the body. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8387579, there are many other studies supporting this. Plus they help you full and keep your leptin levels high when you are constantly eating them.I also eat lots of tuna, beef, and a small portion of bacon. You HAVE to be careful of where you get your bacon or who cooks it for you, because when restaurants cook bacon they use vegetable oils, which contains a lot of polyunstaturated fats.. plus you get bacon with lots of sodium in them. The only way you should have your bacon is by using coconut oil or an oil with lots of MCTs (middle chain triglycerides) in them. Polyunsaturated fats (omega-6 fats found in vegetable oil, coconut oils, and peanuts) are typically long chain fatty acids, which can take several days to burn off. Your wings were also probably served with this stuff too. You also have to consume omega-3's as well to compensate for the omega-6's you ate. Omega-3s are found in fish or fish oil mostly, or walnuts. I forgot the science behind it, but that can increase your risk of heart disease if you don't consume the same amounts of omega-3s to the omega-6s; should be a 1:1 ratio. But I don't worry much about it since I only consume a very small portion.Sometimes to save up on coconut oil, I try to find recipes using ghee since they sell ghee in big huge cans. But because I can eat almost anything, I usually just eat ghee out of the can. Coconut and ghee have MCT, which are good for the body since they are readily absorbed. In fact, they have been used to treat alzheimers (diabetes in the brain) since when you have insulin resistance, you are essentially killing off cells in the brain by not giving it enough energy (most people would have to compensate by eating more sugar.. cycling the problematic process). Coconut oils and ghee and other substances with MCTs are used by athletes, diabetes, and patients with IBD to provide them the alternative source of energy quickly rather than relying on glucose levels.I really don't count calories, I just eat when I'm fully satiable and I keep a simple calculative diet. I eat proteins that equates to 1 gram to 1 pound of muscle, and half a gram of fat to compensate. Meaning, 1 g of fat to every 2 g of protein. Basically you are doing a 1:1 ratio of calories (1 g of protein = 4 calories, 1 g of fat = 9 calories).I do drink whey proteins in the morning (25 g protein), but I do it with coconut oil and a table spoon of ghee for example (14 g fat).Although I have not lost any weight, I have been looking leaner and leaner and leaner and leaner, while maintaining my 250lb body weight. Plus my energy is through the roof and I'm able to retain memory a lot better than before. My ADHD is actually under control without any ADHD medicines. I got my ex-girlfriend on this diet who is suffering from psc and crohns, and my mom suffering from type 2 diabetes (she is closely monitoring her glucose levels).Here is some information that is helpful:http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/medium-chain-triglycerides-mcts-the-fat-that-makes-you-lose-fat (found just now)http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/skinny-on-fats (my personal favorite article)http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=%2Fmp4%2FLJO190v1_WS (video on coconut oil for patients with alzheimers)
cericson, I'm the same way as you. I weigh 250, I started out at 262 and I fluctuate from 250 to 255 back to 250 again, this was for the past two months. I used to eat a lot of sugar subsistence, but after careful study I realized that whenever you spike up your insulin (which is what sugar subsistence does) you stop oxidizing fat. Later did I find out that sugar substitutes should have been accounted for as a carbohydrate and since removed them from my diet.. anyways I digress.I eat a lot of veggies within my meals. Fibers actually produce small chain carbohydrates that are fermented by the bacteria in your intestines, which are readily absorbed by the body. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8387579, there are many other studies supporting this. Plus they help you full and keep your leptin levels high when you are constantly eating them.Fibre is fine cloudybrain, but too many vegetables like onions will have a negative effect ion Cericson’s diet. Just one medium onion is nearly one third of the maximum daily allowance of net carbs and contributes only 2 grabs of fibre, so why would you take the risk of derailing your efforts? Some vegetables such as broccoli are fine in small doses and help with bowel functions but it is not a case that all veggies are fine.I also eat lots of tuna, beef, and a small portion of bacon. You HAVE to be careful of where you get your bacon or who cooks it for you, because when restaurants cook bacon they use vegetable oils, which contains a lot of polyunstaturated fats.. plus you get bacon with lots of sodium in them. The only way you should have your bacon is by using coconut oil or an oil with lots of MCTs (middle chain triglycerides) in them. Polyunsaturated fats (omega-6 fats found in vegetable oil, coconut oils, and peanuts) are typically long chain fatty acids, which can take several days to burn off. Your wings were also probably served with this stuff too. You also have to consume omega-3's as well to compensate for the omega-6's you ate. Omega-3s are found in fish or fish oil mostly, or walnuts. I forgot the science behind it, but that can increase your risk of heart disease if you don't consume the same amounts of omega-3s to the omega-6s; should be a 1:1 ratio. But I don't worry much about it since I only consume a very small portion.I found this a bit contradictory - you have listed coconut oil as both a good and bad type of oil. Just grill your bacon, there is no reason to fry it. I don't mean to sound harsh but when I first joined the forum it was information like this that made me super confused as to what was okay and what I should avoid. Coconut oil is a recommended fat in this diet because it is highly thermogenic and is ~64% MCT (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/coconut_oil.htm). Fat ideally should come from grass-fed meat sources but in reality this is very difficult.Sometimes to save up on coconut oil, I try to find recipes using ghee since they sell ghee in big huge cans. But because I can eat almost anything, I usually just eat ghee out of the can. Coconut and ghee have MCT, which are good for the body since they are readily absorbed. In fact, they have been used to treat alzheimers (diabetes in the brain) since when you have insulin resistance, you are essentially killing off cells in the brain by not giving it enough energy (most people would have to compensate by eating more sugar.. cycling the problematic process). Coconut oils and ghee and other substances with MCTs are used by athletes, diabetes, and patients with IBD to provide them the alternative source of energy quickly rather than relying on glucose levels.I really don't count calories, I just eat when I'm fully satiable and I keep a simple calculative diet. I eat proteins that equates to 1 gram to 1 pound of muscle, and half a gram of fat to compensate. Meaning, 1 g of fat to every 2 g of protein. Basically you are doing a 1:1 ratio of calories (1 g of protein = 4 calories, 1 g of fat = 9 calories).You are very lucky. 99% of people cannot eat whatever they want. I certainly can't, hence why I am here! I would imagine that cericson can't just eat whatever he wants either and most people on this diet do need to have some level of restriction, especially if they are not seeing results. Your calculative diet is effectively restricting calories and is a good baseline for cericson. I do drink whey proteins in the morning (25 g protein), but I do it with coconut oil and a table spoon of ghee for example (14 g fat).Were you aware that whey spikes insulin and should only be taken post workout (PWO) on CNS, if absolutely necessary? Most of the guys and girls here recommend cutting whey as well as other dairy based products if someone is stalling.Although I have not lost any weight, I have been looking leaner and leaner and leaner and leaner, while maintaining my 250lb body weight. Plus my energy is through the roof and I'm able to retain memory a lot better than before. My ADHD is actually under control without any ADHD medicines. I got my ex-girlfriend on this diet who is suffering from psc and crohns, and my mom suffering from type 2 diabetes (she is closely monitoring her glucose levels).Well done on the results so far cloudybrain and sorry to pick your post apart but a couple of things did require clarification. Similarly to both of you I haven't lost any weight on this program yet but body composition is changing. Here is some information that is helpful:http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/medium-chain-triglycerides-mcts-the-fat-that-makes-you-lose-fat (found just now)http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/skinny-on-fats (my personal favorite article)http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=%2Fmp4%2FLJO190v1_WS (video on coconut oil for patients with alzheimers)
Hi RussiB 🙂'Fibre is fine cloudybrain, but too many vegetables like onions will have a negative effect ion Cericson’s diet. Just one medium onion is nearly one third of the maximum daily allowance of net carbs and contributes only 2 grabs of fibre, so why would you take the risk of derailing your efforts? Some vegetables such as broccoli are fine in small doses and help with bowel functions but it is not a case that all veggies are fine.'Yeh I don't over do it with one particular veggie, I give myself a variety. I did it because when I first started carb nite I was constipated for the first few weeks, veggies helped me immensely. I do keep sweet veggies like carrots and red peppers to a minimum though.I found this a bit contradictory - you have listed coconut oil as both a good and bad type of oil. Just grill your bacon, there is no reason to fry it. I don't mean to sound harsh but when I first joined the forum it was information like this that made me super confused as to what was okay and what I should avoid. Coconut oil is a recommended fat in this diet because it is highly thermogenic and is ~64% MCT (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/coconut_oil.htm). Fat ideally should come from grass-fed meat sources but in reality this is very difficult.I'm sorry I re-read where I said "Polyunsaturated fats (omega-6 fats found in vegetable oil, coconut oils," that is NOT true.. I meant to say "canola oil" not coconut oil. Coconut oil is very good for you since it's good for people who has PSC.. but it's not good for people who has liver diseases since the liver directly takes in the MCTs and converts them into ketones. I do recommend grilling bacon.. I'm mentioning that because getting restaurant food poses risks.Were you aware that whey spikes insulin and should only be taken post workout (PWO) on CNS, if absolutely necessary? Most of the guys and girls here recommend cutting whey as well as other dairy based products if someone is stalling.Yes, but I'm pretty flexible and lenient when it comes to the insulin spikes from non-carb related foods, so I do understand when I consume it I won't be able to oxidize any fats. But any meats we eat raises our insulin anyways. In a low carb high protein diet, insulin response would be hire compared to a high carb low protein diet.. HOWEVER.. the blood sugar response in a low carb high protein diet is lower than a high carb low protein diet. Also, proteins in general causes your insulin to raise up regardless. To put it into perspect: an egg raises the least amount of insulin, next comes turkey, then fish, then whey (not by much). In fact one study suggests that beef brings just as much insulin as brown rice:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9356547Reasoning behind all this?This is because amino acids stimulate your pancreas (produces the insulin) without converting it to glucose first.Keep in mind I don't purely take whey only, I always eat it with fats to slow down the process of digestion.Though if you don't agree with me, you don't have to follow. I just find that this works out best for me. I tried without for two weeks and I tried with (ever since the two weeks) and I decided to go with my gut (no pun intended).Personally I wish Keifer mentioned more about this in the book, but I take what I can get (info and food).
Hi RussiB 🙂'Fibre is fine cloudybrain, but too many vegetables like onions will have a negative effect ion Cericson’s diet. Just one medium onion is nearly one third of the maximum daily allowance of net carbs and contributes only 2 grabs of fibre, so why would you take the risk of derailing your efforts? Some vegetables such as broccoli are fine in small doses and help with bowel functions but it is not a case that all veggies are fine.'Yeh I don't over do it with one particular veggie, I give myself a variety. I did it because when I first started carb nite I was constipated for the first few weeks, veggies helped me immensely. I do keep sweet veggies like carrots and red peppers to a minimum though.I found this a bit contradictory - you have listed coconut oil as both a good and bad type of oil. Just grill your bacon, there is no reason to fry it. I don't mean to sound harsh but when I first joined the forum it was information like this that made me super confused as to what was okay and what I should avoid. Coconut oil is a recommended fat in this diet because it is highly thermogenic and is ~64% MCT (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/coconut_oil.htm). Fat ideally should come from grass-fed meat sources but in reality this is very difficult.I'm sorry I re-read where I said "Polyunsaturated fats (omega-6 fats found in vegetable oil, coconut oils," that is NOT true.. I meant to say "canola oil" not coconut oil. Coconut oil is very good for you since it's good for people who has PSC.. but it's not good for people who has liver diseases since the liver directly takes in the MCTs and converts them into ketones. I do recommend grilling bacon.. I'm mentioning that because getting restaurant food poses risks.Were you aware that whey spikes insulin and should only be taken post workout (PWO) on CNS, if absolutely necessary? Most of the guys and girls here recommend cutting whey as well as other dairy based products if someone is stalling.Yes, but I'm pretty flexible and lenient when it comes to the insulin spikes from non-carb related foods, so I do understand when I consume it I won't be able to oxidize any fats. But any meats we eat raises our insulin anyways. In a low carb high protein diet, insulin response would be hire compared to a high carb low protein diet.. HOWEVER.. the blood sugar response in a low carb high protein diet is lower than a high carb low protein diet. Also, proteins in general causes your insulin to raise up regardless. To put it into perspect: an egg raises the least amount of insulin, next comes turkey, then fish, then whey (not by much). In fact one study suggests that beef brings just as much insulin as brown rice:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9356547Reasoning behind all this?This is because amino acids stimulate your pancreas (produces the insulin) without converting it to glucose first.Keep in mind I don't purely take whey only, I always eat it with fats to slow down the process of digestion.Though if you don't agree with me, you don't have to follow. I just find that this works out best for me. I tried without for two weeks and I tried with (ever since the two weeks) and I decided to go with my gut (no pun intended).Personally I wish Keifer mentioned more about this in the book, but I take what I can get (info and food).
Loving the fact that there are so many educated people here to help out. Thanks cloudybrain, the clarification will help people who read this in the future.
Hey Russib,Thanks for that, but I got most of my information from this forum and mostly from marksdailyapple.com (which can turn anyone into a dietician). It was only a month ago I started on this forum arguing from the point of saturated fats being bad for you and eating too much proteins, sadly I didn't second guess those things either when I first heard what saturated fats were all about back in my teens. I'm 30 years old now.As far as artificial sweeteners goes:best page so far: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/artificial-sweeteners-insulin/I still count artificial sweeteners as a carb since it has affects on your hormones keifer mentioned in the book.For proteins:American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (vol. 66, p. 1264, 1997)http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insulin-index/ (this article talks about the research)Most important phrase:"The insulin helps drive amino acids into the muscle cells where they’re needed. At the heart of this process, one thing is for certain: the body knows what it’s doing."What I've mostly learned on this forum is staying away from whey but you can eat beef or bacon (which doesn't make sense) since protein itself raises insulin. The difference is the glucagon levels. However, even though it does raise insulin levels, the only reason why this works with Carb Nite is so you don't lose any muscle. The point, I guess, is not to make yourself more sensitiveness to insulin, the point is to switch into becoming less independent on insulin in regulating carbs and have it regulate fat instead.Because I looked deeply into this, consuming whey or milk proteins are NOT a problem with this diet, since you need to maintain muscle weight and lose fat in a simpler way. Making our diet super strict just increases our cortisol levels.. haha 🙂
Hey Russib,Thanks for that, but I got most of my information from this forum and mostly from marksdailyapple.com (which can turn anyone into a dietician). It was only a month ago I started on this forum arguing from the point of saturated fats being bad for you and eating too much proteins, sadly I didn't second guess those things either when I first heard what saturated fats were all about back in my teens. I'm 30 years old now.As far as artificial sweeteners goes:best page so far: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/artificial-sweeteners-insulin/I still count artificial sweeteners as a carb since it has affects on your hormones keifer mentioned in the book.For proteins:American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (vol. 66, p. 1264, 1997)http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insulin-index/ (this article talks about the research)Most important phrase:"The insulin helps drive amino acids into the muscle cells where they’re needed. At the heart of this process, one thing is for certain: the body knows what it’s doing."What I've mostly learned on this forum is staying away from whey but you can eat beef or bacon (which doesn't make sense) since protein itself raises insulin. The difference is the glucagon levels. However, even though it does raise insulin levels, the only reason why this works with Carb Nite is so you don't lose any muscle. The point, I guess, is not to make yourself more sensitiveness to insulin, the point is to switch into becoming less independent on insulin in regulating carbs and have it regulate fat instead.Because I looked deeply into this, consuming whey or milk proteins are NOT a problem with this diet, since you need to maintain muscle weight and lose fat in a simpler way. Making our diet super strict just increases our cortisol levels.. haha 🙂
Hey Man,First of all I admire your dedication to getting the facts instead of just blindly argueing with people which is very common on forums. I agree with your statements 100 percent and with regards to the meat thing, yes insulin is realeased when you eat ANY protein source but much less and less of spike occurs with fattier meats, I couldnt find the study but the difference between say a chicken breast and rib eye steak was huge!! What you dont want to happen on Carb Nite is for your fat levels to be too low and for your body to start breaking down protein into glucose to be stored as GLYCOGEN, when your protein is too high or fat too low your body changes its efforts from using fat for energy to breaking down protein into glucose. So the reason that the whey is supposed to be avoided (suggest by Keifer himself) is there is little to no fat withit so if your body isn't needing that protein for protein synthesis it will be broken down into glucose.
Hey Man,First of all I admire your dedication to getting the facts instead of just blindly argueing with people which is very common on forums. I agree with your statements 100 percent and with regards to the meat thing, yes insulin is realeased when you eat ANY protein source but much less and less of spike occurs with fattier meats, I couldnt find the study but the difference between say a chicken breast and rib eye steak was huge!! What you dont want to happen on Carb Nite is for your fat levels to be too low and for your body to start breaking down protein into glucose to be stored as GLYCOGEN, when your protein is too high or fat too low your body changes its efforts from using fat for energy to breaking down protein into glucose. So the reason that the whey is supposed to be avoided (suggest by Keifer himself) is there is little to no fat withit so if your body isn't needing that protein for protein synthesis it will be broken down into glucose.
Hey Mikehr,That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the clarification. It's funny how you start to put the jigsaw together piece by piece with this program. If you manage to find the link to insulin spikes for protein sources please can you post it?Essentially then, chicken, turkey and leaner cuts of meat will actually be counter-productive on CNS because without the additional fat you are forcing your body to break down protein as its primary energy source, not fat?Is it counter-productive to eat chicken if you include fat such as coconut oil or bacon, do you know?#Please don't make me give up chicken! 😉
Hey Man,First of all I admire your dedication to getting the facts instead of just blindly argueing with people which is very common on forums. I agree with your statements 100 percent and with regards to the meat thing, yes insulin is realeased when you eat ANY protein source but much less and less of spike occurs with fattier meats, I couldnt find the study but the difference between say a chicken breast and rib eye steak was huge!! What you dont want to happen on Carb Nite is for your fat levels to be too low and for your body to start breaking down protein into glucose to be stored as GLYCOGEN, when your protein is too high or fat too low your body changes its efforts from using fat for energy to breaking down protein into glucose. So the reason that the whey is supposed to be avoided (suggest by Keifer himself) is there is little to no fat withit so if your body isn't needing that protein for protein synthesis it will be broken down into glucose.
Hey Mikehr,That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the clarification. It's funny how you start to put the jigsaw together piece by piece with this program. If you manage to find the link to insulin spikes for protein sources please can you post it?Essentially then, chicken, turkey and leaner cuts of meat will actually be counter-productive on CNS because without the additional fat you are forcing your body to break down protein as its primary energy source, not fat?Is it counter-productive to eat chicken if you include fat such as coconut oil or bacon, do you know?#Please don't make me give up chicken! 😉
Feel free to eat chicken, but if you are eating leaner cuts of it then it might be a good idea to toss some bacon, butter, or coconut oil on it.
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