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http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/peri_workoiut_and_gh?pageNo=0#bottomITT it shows some of Christian Thibadeau's opinions on not taking in pre- and peri- workout carbs. Opinions on this? Also, in the livespill, John Meadow's wrote. John Meadows: Just want to second CT's no peri to avoid blunting hormonal release. This is a very bad idea that severely compromises muscle gains. My two cents. Rock on CT.http://tnation.t-nation.com/strength-training-topics/2060(^Link to Livespill)Thoughts and opinions?
I'm confused. I thought Meadows specifically sipped his pwo shake 15 min into his workout (with carbs), and his only carbs for the day were peri-workout. Did he change his mind recently?
I dont think he ever said that… Think that was Kiefers reccomondation on peri workout carbs after he interviewed John
It all depends on the intensity and duration of the workout. If its 45 minutes of a normal routine then yes peri-nutrition is not needed and will have negative effects. 60+ of high/heavy volume then Meadow's peri-nutrition ideas is agreeable. That's how I see it.
I'm confused. I thought Meadows specifically sipped his pwo shake 15 min into his workout (with carbs), and his only carbs for the day were peri-workout. Did he change his mind recently?
Yes this is confusing to me also.
Hmm maybe I can shed some light on this since I'm working with Meadows. Meadows suggest taking a lot of carbs before, during, and after working out. This primes the body for muscle growth.You can work out without carbs. Its great for people not going the most challenging of workouts. Its been proven, Kiefer has done it with many people.I myself, who wants to put on muscle and size will never go back to working out with-out carbs before, during, and after my workout. With the right combination its almost impossible to get fat. I have put on a significant amount of muscle and dropped body fat and am getting close to 60 before my workout, 90 during, and 80 after. Working out is not a time to burn body fat, or try to manipulate hormones to do so, its a time to build muscle. The time away from the gym( your diet) is key to burning body fat and manipulating hormones.
Hmm maybe I can shed some light on this since I'm working with Meadows. Meadows suggest taking a lot of carbs before, during, and after working out. This primes the body for muscle growth.You can work out without carbs. Its great for people not going the most challenging of workouts. Its been proven, Kiefer has done it with many people.I myself, who wants to put on muscle and size will never go back to working out with-out carbs before, during, and after my workout. With the right combination its almost impossible to get fat. I have put on a significant amount of muscle and dropped body fat and am getting close to 60 before my workout, 90 during, and 80 after. Working out is not a time to burn body fat, or try to manipulate hormones to do so, its a time to build muscle. The time away from the gym( your diet) is key to burning body fat and manipulating hormones.
So are you CBL'ing, only starting the backload pre-workout?
Thats a workout day. Meal 1: Fat and Protein Pulse Meal 2: Fat and Protein Pulse Meal 3 (Pre-workout) Carb + Fat and Protein Intraworkout - Protein + Carb PWO - Cab + protein Meal 4 - Protein
I dont think he ever said that... Think that was Kiefers reccomondation on peri workout carbs after he interviewed John
Meadows reccomends pre, intra, and post workout carbs. I don't understand what is going on here. Meadows and CT are saying don't avoid nutrition around workouts to avoid blunting growth hormone. In other words they are saying eat around your workout.Kiefer DOES NOT reccomend against peri-workout nutrition. He does reccomend against pre and intra workout carbs so you don't go hypoglycemic during the workout, but he reccomends them in certain cases. It has nothing to do with avoiding insulin to avoid blunting GH.I don't see the disagreement between Kiefer vs CT John Meadows.
I dont think he ever said that... Think that was Kiefers reccomondation on peri workout carbs after he interviewed John
Meadows reccomends pre, intra, and post workout carbs. I don't understand what is going on here. Meadows and CT are saying don't avoid nutrition around workouts to avoid blunting growth hormone. In other words they are saying eat around your workout.Kiefer DOES NOT reccomend against peri-workout nutrition. He does reccomend against pre and intra workout carbs so you don't go hypoglycemic during the workout, but he reccomends them in certain cases. It has nothing to do with avoiding insulin to avoid blunting GH.I don't see the disagreement between Kiefer vs CT John Meadows.
That's because there is none. It's exactly as you said ^^;The thing with carbs pre and intra workout is that if you don't eat enough or the right kind...you're gonna use them up too fast and finish your workouts in a drunken stupor is what is mentioned in the CBL book.I think slower carbs might help here but I only take water intra workout right now so I don't know. Also then again since they're slower they aren't available as quickly as fast acting carbs I think keifer recommended something like a grilled cheese or pb sandwhich pre workout didn't he?
I love dex+protein about 30 minutes into actual “working sets” – no bloat, no hypo, no problem! I can listen to that meadows podcast over and over lol.
I dont think he ever said that... Think that was Kiefers reccomondation on peri workout carbs after he interviewed John
Meadows reccomends pre, intra, and post workout carbs. I don't understand what is going on here. Meadows and CT are saying don't avoid nutrition around workouts to avoid blunting growth hormone. In other words they are saying eat around your workout.Kiefer DOES NOT reccomend against peri-workout nutrition. He does reccomend against pre and intra workout carbs so you don't go hypoglycemic during the workout, but he reccomends them in certain cases. It has nothing to do with avoiding insulin to avoid blunting GH.I don't see the disagreement between Kiefer vs CT John Meadows.
I dont think the OP was saying there was a disagreement. I think that is clear when Kiefer had Meadows on the podcast, and Meadows Interviewed Kiefer for his website.
I dont think he ever said that... Think that was Kiefers reccomondation on peri workout carbs after he interviewed John
Meadows reccomends pre, intra, and post workout carbs. I don't understand what is going on here. Meadows and CT are saying don't avoid nutrition around workouts to avoid blunting growth hormone. In other words they are saying eat around your workout.Kiefer DOES NOT reccomend against peri-workout nutrition. He does reccomend against pre and intra workout carbs so you don't go hypoglycemic during the workout, but he reccomends them in certain cases. It has nothing to do with avoiding insulin to avoid blunting GH.I don't see the disagreement between Kiefer vs CT John Meadows.
I dont think the OP was saying there was a disagreement. I think that is clear when Kiefer had Meadows on the podcast, and Meadows Interviewed Kiefer for his website.
After re-reading it you are right, but from the tone of the post, the T-Nation posts, and everyone else it was misleading.
Interesting stuff.Im pretty sure Growth Hormone has been talked about as being extremmely over hyped for awhile now. And unless its in supraphysiological doses doesnt have as much effect as people think. Carbs are probably more potent as far as effects on the body however. Which is why (depending on goals) it probably makes more sense getting carbs to spare muscle/fuel workouts rather than worry about a fraction better fat burning. Thats not to say the night time release of GH isnt important. Just than any additional GH release during workouts is less important (again depending on goal) than the preservation of muscle/fueling of workouts.All that said, I dont feel the need to add carbs to any of my workouts. Even my longest leg days are completely fine and I gas WAY less easily than when I used to have carbs upto, during and around my workouts. Maybe during a bulk when I absolutely have to add calories somewhere I may add some carbs during workouts. I wonder if Meadows would change his peri-workout carb recommendation for someone that trains earlier in the day? I know he's a fan of late afternoon evening training where insulin sensitivty is already wanning. My 2 Cents
Thanks for all the discussion guys, it's all very interesting. I am thinking that here in the next few months, I might try the 'late' night training suggestions of CBL. May wait until about 8pm to train, so all carbs will still be after 6pm, but I'll have carbs pre-, intra- and post WO. See how the results are.
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