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pshannon, im going to use your diet setup thanks lol… also are your pre and post workout meals solid food or protein/carb powders?
Interesting stuff.Im pretty sure Growth Hormone has been talked about as being extremmely over hyped for awhile now. And unless its in supraphysiological doses doesnt have as much effect as people think. Carbs are probably more potent as far as effects on the body however. Which is why (depending on goals) it probably makes more sense getting carbs to spare muscle/fuel workouts rather than worry about a fraction better fat burning. Thats not to say the night time release of GH isnt important. Just than any additional GH release during workouts is less important (again depending on goal) than the preservation of muscle/fueling of workouts.All that said, I dont feel the need to add carbs to any of my workouts. Even my longest leg days are completely fine and I gas WAY less easily than when I used to have carbs upto, during and around my workouts. Maybe during a bulk when I absolutely have to add calories somewhere I may add some carbs during workouts. I wonder if Meadows would change his peri-workout carb recommendation for someone that trains earlier in the day? I know he's a fan of late afternoon evening training where insulin sensitivty is already wanning. My 2 Cents
Meadows still has the carbs peri workout no matter what time of day. just moves it
Here is an excerpt taken from a post over at professional muscle outlining what JM spoke about regarding this subject"John did a quick rehash over his presentation at the last seminar around periworkout nutrition. John believes this is 80% of the battle nutritionally speaking, and again nutrition must match training style. They can’t be looked at two different variables.We are in a war of muscular protein breakdown vs. Muscle protein synthesis.-Supporting muscle protein synthesis creates more muscle, and more muscle = a leaner physique.-We can prime the effect by minimizing muscle protein breakdown DURING training.Pre-training nutrition- 30-60 minutes pre training: Some protein, moderate carbs, and a little fat to slow the release of the carbs so there is no issues with hypoglycemia.Intra-workout nutrition: High molecular weight low osmalality carbs/protein hydrolysates.Start sipping10-15 minutes before workout, then continue through workout."The last month or so i have been basically trained semi-fasted (last meal before workout is usually around lunchtime). Think i might try something along these lines and monitor for any changes.
Here is an excerpt taken from a post over at professional muscle outlining what JM spoke about regarding this subject"John did a quick rehash over his presentation at the last seminar around periworkout nutrition. John believes this is 80% of the battle nutritionally speaking, and again nutrition must match training style. They can’t be looked at two different variables.We are in a war of muscular protein breakdown vs. Muscle protein synthesis.-Supporting muscle protein synthesis creates more muscle, and more muscle = a leaner physique.-We can prime the effect by minimizing muscle protein breakdown DURING training.Pre-training nutrition- 30-60 minutes pre training: Some protein, moderate carbs, and a little fat to slow the release of the carbs so there is no issues with hypoglycemia.Intra-workout nutrition: High molecular weight low osmalality carbs/protein hydrolysates.Start sipping10-15 minutes before workout, then continue through workout."The last month or so i have been basically trained semi-fasted (last meal before workout is usually around lunchtime). Think i might try something along these lines and monitor for any changes.
I would look at your training. It really has to match. Just go look at the elite fts workouts for comparison.
I know this is an older thread but I was browsing and wanted to tell you I have had enhanced fat loss with including Peri-WO carbs along with the backload. I've had issues with dextrose and going hypo during the workout. No carbs peri-WO elicited the same outcome but to a lesser extent. I have been following John for awhile now and he has an article on highly branched cyclic dextrins on his website. VPX and a few other supplement companies have started offering this. All I can say is that the bonking has COMPLETELY disappeared during workouts, I don't feel weak, and I am doing a MD style of training and intensity. After trying dextrose, rilose, and HBCD's, hands down the HBCD's are my choice.John's whole concept of 1) pumping the nutrients from the peri workout shake into the muscle, 2) doing heavier explosive work and 3) doing some finishing movement at high intensity have yielded great results. I can honestly say I have hit the sweet spot with backloading that is allowing me to drop fat while still keeping animal intensity at the gym and seeing the weekly changes. John has been notoriosly known for gaining muscle during his preps (which Kiefer mentioned on Biojacked).All in all I will state that, for me, peri-WO carbs has made a noticeable different in my fat loss, muscle gain, and general badassadery.
I know this is an older thread but I was browsing and wanted to tell you I have had enhanced fat loss with including Peri-WO carbs along with the backload. I've had issues with dextrose and going hypo during the workout. No carbs peri-WO elicited the same outcome but to a lesser extent. I have been following John for awhile now and he has an article on highly branched cyclic dextrins on his website. VPX and a few other supplement companies have started offering this. All I can say is that the bonking has COMPLETELY disappeared during workouts, I don't feel weak, and I am doing a MD style of training and intensity. After trying dextrose, rilose, and HBCD's, hands down the HBCD's are my choice.John's whole concept of 1) pumping the nutrients from the peri workout shake into the muscle, 2) doing heavier explosive work and 3) doing some finishing movement at high intensity have yielded great results. I can honestly say I have hit the sweet spot with backloading that is allowing me to drop fat while still keeping animal intensity at the gym and seeing the weekly changes. John has been notoriosly known for gaining muscle during his preps (which Kiefer mentioned on Biojacked).All in all I will state that, for me, peri-WO carbs has made a noticeable different in my fat loss, muscle gain, and general badassadery.
well that explains why T-nation reps Mag-10 and ANACONDA so much
The stuff John and Dave are using now is called Plazma. From what I have heard it is a Tnation supplement that they hasnt been released yet (containing HBCD I believe). I think Tnations products aren't too bad, but the “super top secret” overhyped bullshit that comes out with ALL of their supplements is ridiculous.I looked everywhere to find a pure source of HBCD but I didn't come up with anything so I had to go the VPX route. I would assume in the future you will be able to get it like you would dextrose, waxy maize, etc.Not saying it's the end all be all for supplements, but after having tried other carb powders this one is superior from my experience.
The stuff John and Dave are using now is called Plazma. From what I have heard it is a Tnation supplement that they hasnt been released yet (containing HBCD I believe). I think Tnations products aren't too bad, but the "super top secret" overhyped bullshit that comes out with ALL of their supplements is ridiculous.I looked everywhere to find a pure source of HBCD but I didn't come up with anything so I had to go the VPX route. I would assume in the future you will be able to get it like you would dextrose, waxy maize, etc.Not saying it's the end all be all for supplements, but after having tried other carb powders this one is superior from my experience.
regarding Waxy Maize, do you think is still does a fairly good job per-workout, coming from dextrose anyway? I was going to transition to W.M. from dextrose because it didn't seem to affect the wallet too much. Another guy posted about HBCD a while back (jam.josh) and got me thinking about it but it was just too darn expensive (i only saw it in Biotest products)By the way, i read that Japan had been using this stuff since 2002 ("cluster dextrin"). makes me scratch my head and wonder what else we don't know! http://www.glico.co.jp/en/material/cluster_dextrin/index.htmMaybe Kiefer will take a trip to Japan and make some new friends 8)
So how have you implemented this change Tanner? Have you reduced carbs from the backload and put them into the workout drink or have you added this on top of what you were already doing?
Also interested in thia! Gaspari has released a product called glycofuze with HBCDs and I think I can get it for cost pricee 🙂
The stuff John and Dave are using now is called Plazma. From what I have heard it is a Tnation supplement that they hasnt been released yet (containing HBCD I believe). I think Tnations products aren't too bad, but the "super top secret" overhyped bullshit that comes out with ALL of their supplements is ridiculous.I looked everywhere to find a pure source of HBCD but I didn't come up with anything so I had to go the VPX route. I would assume in the future you will be able to get it like you would dextrose, waxy maize, etc.Not saying it's the end all be all for supplements, but after having tried other carb powders this one is superior from my experience.
regarding Waxy Maize, do you think is still does a fairly good job per-workout, coming from dextrose anyway? I was going to transition to W.M. from dextrose because it didn't seem to affect the wallet too much. Another guy posted about HBCD a while back (jam.josh) and got me thinking about it but it was just too darn expensive (i only saw it in Biotest products)By the way, i read that Japan had been using this stuff since 2002 ("cluster dextrin"). makes me scratch my head and wonder what else we don't know! http://www.glico.co.jp/en/material/cluster_dextrin/index.htmMaybe Kiefer will take a trip to Japan and make some new friends 8)
I saw that link too when I was searching. It's only a matter of time before it's mainstream here. As far as the WM I have only used that WAY back in the day when it first came out and it was a decent carb periWO. I know I have some wild fluctuations during the workouts with Dextrose. I don't have the science to back it up but it seems like anything sweet tasting (sugar, dextrose, and rilose) I had some crazy spikes and drops in blood sugar. If I recall I don't remember getting that with WM and I for sure know the HBCD's have worked well. Anyone who has followed John knows his workouts will make you grow a pair pretty quick. I am not being trained by him but he has a bunch of sample workouts on his website which I have used structure my own training and I can say that my intensity is as high as it's every been simply by including 50 - 80g of peri WO carbs. Not to sound like a bodybuilder, but the pump is pretty good too :).
So how have you implemented this change Tanner? Have you reduced carbs from the backload and put them into the workout drink or have you added this on top of what you were already doing?
To start with the Peri-WO nutrition is a staple no matter what. I haven't been around here in awhile and have really switched my views from ALL performance to performance/health. My backloads usually consist of sweet potatoes, rice/honey, or something boring like that. And one night a week I will have an all out dirty backload. I have a limited timeframe to get my carbs in for the backload anyways (2 hours) so having them Peri-WO really helps with making sure I get the required amount in. I would say that if I were taking in 400g or carbs in the backload and decided to put 100 periWO I would subtract them from my total carbs for the backload.Kiefer really talks about getting the "feel" for backloading and I am to the point (finally) that if I wake up feeling softer I know exactly what to do. The HFCS, gluten, and whatever else really caught up to me with the previous backloading. While starting out it was working great but for whatever reason I could start to see fat accumulation and just didn't feel to great. That is when I started a stint of CNS, reset, then started the cleaner/healthier backloads, which has actually has me losing fat during the process.
Also interested in thia! Gaspari has released a product called glycofuze with HBCDs and I think I can get it for cost pricee 🙂
I read that actually has MORE HBCD's in it than VPX's stuff. If you get some let me know if you like it.
Hey man just picked it up for 30 bucks 🙂 ill let you know what i think after training but quick q should i put 30g hydro whey in with it intra-workout?
Hey man just picked it up for 30 bucks 🙂 ill let you know what i think after training but quick q should i put 30g hydro whey in with it intra-workout?
$30? How the hell did you manage that.I was looking into this stuff a few days ago thinking it might be worth a shot when I start backloading again so I find it ironic that it's showing up around here around the same time.
Hey man just picked it up for 30 bucks 🙂 ill let you know what i think after training but quick q should i put 30g hydro whey in with it intra-workout?
$30? How the hell did you manage that.I was looking into this stuff a few days ago thinking it might be worth a shot when I start backloading again so I find it ironic that it's showing up around here around the same time.
I work at supplement store here in Calgary!:) i knew the gaspari rep was in town and he had a strawberry kiwi one in his truck which he sold me for cost!
Tanner. I'm glad to see your on board. I have been on the JM train for almost half a year now, and can honestly say that I will never workout without Anaconda again. I could live without Mag-10, but the combination of Mag-10 and Anaconda around my workouts really kills anything I have ever had. People would probably FREAK out if they knew my INTRA-workout shake has 650 calories and 90g of carbs in it. Big-R gets it, hes pushing the limits of the intra-workout. People are to afraid of carbs in my opinion. If you put them in the right places at the right time, its impossible for them to turn to fat. Of course this doesn't apply to the people that go in and are still using the top of the DB rack. I have the Plazma as well. JM helped hook that up for me. The whole protocol changes with Plazma though, and recover is a above and beyond. Everyone can hate on the price, and how much T-nation pushes their products, but they work plain and simple. People on here are spending close to the same amount on their "true-nutrition" stuff. YAY for Usher abs, bitches
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