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5/3/1 is great but it's not necessarily tailored to my goals.I'm looking more for lean mass gains not necessarily strength. Anyone have any bodybuilding routines they recommend? Just for a change of pace for 3 or 4 months. Then I'll probably go back to heavy duty.
I get what you are saying, but it's good for even bodybuilders to do a strength block. Strength is still important for a bodybuilder because if you can increase your strength, you can use more weight on your exercises. This will lead to more gains in hypertrophy. This isn't necessary if you are still getting stronger from bodybuilding work, but most people stall after training this way for a while and need to do strength specific work to gain strength.I would do a really simply program for a few months to increase strength.Maybe something like:Main Exericse 5x5Main Assistance 3x5Assistance WorkSo a leg day would look like this:Squat: 5x5Stiff Legged Deadlift: 3x5leg extensionsleg curlscalves
Perfect! Thanks man! My partner is adverse to 5/3/1. It's just too complicated for him. I tried to explain it and even made a spreadsheet where he just plugs in the numbers and it calculates all the weights per set. We're kind of like Master-Blaster from Mad Max. He's straight broscience. No concept of dietary concepts, tailoring a workout routine for personal gains, etc. He's strong as *bleep* though. Genetics... *sigh*. I think I can sell him on this.
Lol he thinks 5/3/1 is complicated? That's one of the easiest programs! Anyways, I think this will work better than 5/3/1 because I don't think sets with less than 5 reps would benefit you that much. Sets of 5 are really good for increasing your base strength because they cause muscle growth at the same time. Plus 5/3/1 has those retarded deload weeks every 4 weeks.Let me know if you need help with setting this up if you choose to do this.
Oh, any help would be greatly appreciated in setting this up. Right now I'm doing Heavy Duty with only a few mods made for biceps. I replaced straight bar curls with alternating dumbbell curls with no negatives. Straight bar curls hurt my elbow a lot.Also, I lift legs twice a week with the second day being just by myself. The first leg day is just as described on Heavy Duty. My foot position for squats and leg press are for focusing on the outer sweep. The second leg day is trying to focus on the groin and upper part of the leg/glutes. Sumo squats 4x10Leg Press (sumo foot position) 3x10Standing hamstring curls 3x10Romanian dead lifts 3x10Calf presses with toe position in and then out 3x10 (2)Any advice on how to setup for primary and secondary exercises for 5x5 would be really appreciated.
Oh, any help would be greatly appreciated in setting this up. Right now I'm doing Heavy Duty with only a few mods made for biceps. I replaced straight bar curls with alternating dumbbell curls with no negatives. Straight bar curls hurt my elbow a lot.Also, I lift legs twice a week with the second day being just by myself. The first leg day is just as described on Heavy Duty. My foot position for squats and leg press are for focusing on the outer sweep. The second leg day is trying to focus on the groin and upper part of the leg/glutes. Sumo squats 4x10Leg Press (sumo foot position) 3x10Standing hamstring curls 3x10Romanian dead lifts 3x10Calf presses with toe position in and then out 3x10 (2)Any advice on how to setup for primary and secondary exercises for 5x5 would be really appreciated.
I have to say man, unless you are a competitive bodybuilder, I wouldn't worry about leg sweep or hitting certain areas of your glutes. Forgive me if you are, but unless you are already really jacked, I think your focus should just be on gaining all around mass. If you insist on that, I really can't help you because I just don't know much about training like that.Is there a certain bodypart split you have in mind?
I have something that you might be interested in.. PM me your email address
No reason to keep the pole dancing secret.
Hey nothing wrong with a little pole dancing 🙂
Not at all.Throw in some hubby squats and your good to go.Don't think the poster will go for it,though,he's looking for broscience. 🙁
Oh, any help would be greatly appreciated in setting this up. Right now I'm doing Heavy Duty with only a few mods made for biceps. I replaced straight bar curls with alternating dumbbell curls with no negatives. Straight bar curls hurt my elbow a lot.Also, I lift legs twice a week with the second day being just by myself. The first leg day is just as described on Heavy Duty. My foot position for squats and leg press are for focusing on the outer sweep. The second leg day is trying to focus on the groin and upper part of the leg/glutes. Sumo squats 4x10Leg Press (sumo foot position) 3x10Standing hamstring curls 3x10Romanian dead lifts 3x10Calf presses with toe position in and then out 3x10 (2)Any advice on how to setup for primary and secondary exercises for 5x5 would be really appreciated.
I have to say man, unless you are a competitive bodybuilder, I wouldn't worry about leg sweep or hitting certain areas of your glutes. Forgive me if you are, but unless you are already really jacked, I think your focus should just be on gaining all around mass. If you insist on that, I really can't help you because I just don't know much about training like that.Is there a certain bodypart split you have in mind?
Good point. I probably should have included some stats. I'm 36 y/o, 6'1", 203 lb, 10-12% bf. So no I'm not jacked - lol! I'm on the road to being jacked... maybe? The reason I started a second leg day is 2 fold. 1 - if I just train "legs" the upper part of my legs (groin, glutes, etc) grow a lot faster than my vmo and vl. 2 - I have a bad habit of letting my diet slip if I take 2 days off (especially back to back). So the second leg day is fairly light compared to the first. I figured if I was going to be in the gym 6 days, legs could be done twice. The second leg day is kind of a throw away day. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.How about I phrase the question this way: how would you modify Heavy Duty to add a strength building component to it understanding some of the hypertrophy aspects might be sacrificed in doing that.
Good point. I probably should have included some stats. I'm 36 y/o, 6'1", 203 lb, 10-12% bf. So no I'm not jacked - lol!
You might not consider yourself jacked,but that is almost the perfect starting point to be taking things to another level.With that kind of physical makeup you are going to be able to see and feel the results of training and/ or diet as you experiment with things almost immediately.I don't know if you mentioned what your diet was in this thread?Keifer specifically points out that "Heavy Duty" and other low volume/negative based training methods are not a good fit for Carb Backloading,probably because he doesn't see this type of training as being glycogen depleting as necessary to take advantage of CBL.I think if you are seeking a program,stick with a program.Heavy Duty is a pretty rigid program with not a lot of creativity within it.This is by design.If you are training this as intensely as it is designed,you won't be able to stand it much more than 2-3x per week.Mentzer said that some people gained best on once every 10 days,so in other words,if you are talking about adding sets/training days,you are probably stale on it,or just not pushing it as hard as intended.I kind of believe that "Heavy Duty" training for most people is a good plateau buster more than a long term training method.The program that iBob is recommending is proven and could not be more different than Heavy Duty.Combined with CBL,you should see some significant gains.Forget the muscle shaping for now.Until you have all the stength and mass you desire,that should not be a concern.For the most part,shaping is BS unless you are juicing,the shaping you take on is more or less determined by your genetics.Sometimes,in a power-type program some body parts might get a little neglect(rear delts?) so like 4 sets a week of your favorite exercise for a small body part might not hurt.Are you doing CBL?That would be a good thing at your stage.
Whoops! I am doing CBL and thought Heavy Duty was made for CBL. http://athlete.io/1226/heavy-duty-cbl/I guess I'm doing the Heavy Duty "hybrid". Or whatever you call it that the link is talking about. BTW, that download link no longer works 🙁
Oh, any help would be greatly appreciated in setting this up. Right now I'm doing Heavy Duty with only a few mods made for biceps. I replaced straight bar curls with alternating dumbbell curls with no negatives. Straight bar curls hurt my elbow a lot.Also, I lift legs twice a week with the second day being just by myself. The first leg day is just as described on Heavy Duty. My foot position for squats and leg press are for focusing on the outer sweep. The second leg day is trying to focus on the groin and upper part of the leg/glutes. Sumo squats 4x10Leg Press (sumo foot position) 3x10Standing hamstring curls 3x10Romanian dead lifts 3x10Calf presses with toe position in and then out 3x10 (2)Any advice on how to setup for primary and secondary exercises for 5x5 would be really appreciated.
I have to say man, unless you are a competitive bodybuilder, I wouldn't worry about leg sweep or hitting certain areas of your glutes. Forgive me if you are, but unless you are already really jacked, I think your focus should just be on gaining all around mass. If you insist on that, I really can't help you because I just don't know much about training like that.Is there a certain bodypart split you have in mind?
Good point. I probably should have included some stats. I'm 36 y/o, 6'1", 203 lb, 10-12% bf. So no I'm not jacked - lol! I'm on the road to being jacked... maybe? The reason I started a second leg day is 2 fold. 1 - if I just train "legs" the upper part of my legs (groin, glutes, etc) grow a lot faster than my vmo and vl. 2 - I have a bad habit of letting my diet slip if I take 2 days off (especially back to back). So the second leg day is fairly light compared to the first. I figured if I was going to be in the gym 6 days, legs could be done twice. The second leg day is kind of a throw away day. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.How about I phrase the question this way: how would you modify Heavy Duty to add a strength building component to it understanding some of the hypertrophy aspects might be sacrificed in doing that.
There's nothing wrong with two leg days. Just focus on quads, glutes, hamstrings, and calves. Don't worry about the individual heads of the muscles. As Mag said, most of the what you call "uneven development" is just your genetics. Most of us don't have the perfect symmetry and proportions.Here is a program I would do:Chest and ShouldersIncline Bench - 5x5Behind the Neck Press - 3x5FliesLateral RaisesBackRack Pull (just below knee) - 5x5Pullup - 3x5DB RowShrugsRear Delt RaisesOff DayLegsSquat - 5x5Stiff Legged Deadlift - 3x5Leg PressLeg CurlsCalvesArmsDecline Close Grip Bench Press - 5x5Barbell Curl - 3x5Tricep ExtensionsReverse CurlsUpper Body Accessory Daywhatever you feel needs extra work, don't go too heavy, keep the reps high. Don't be afraid to do arms again here.Leg Day 2whatever you feel needs extra work, don't go too heavy, keep the reps highI think this split will work nicely. Do the 5x5 and the 3x5 exercises I listed. Everything else is just an example and you can do whatever you want.
Are the other exercises 3×10 or 12 then?Two questions about what you suggested for Chest and Shoulders. Are the flies shoulder flies or chest flies? Also, what do you think about adding flat bench dumbbells to that day?
Are the other exercises 3x10 or 12 then?Two questions about what you suggested for Chest and Shoulders. Are the flies shoulder flies or chest flies? Also, what do you think about adding flat bench dumbbells to that day?
The volume is up to you and depends on your training style. Flies mean pec flies. Flat bench DB press would be great. They would especially be great on the upper body accessory day. Along with DB overhead presses.
“The volume is up to you and depends on your training style.”Help me out on the differences here. If my diet is CBL what would you suggest given my size. When you say volume are you talking about number of sets, number of reps/set, or both?
"The volume is up to you and depends on your training style."Help me out on the differences here. If my diet is CBL what would you suggest given my size. When you say volume are you talking about number of sets, number of reps/set, or both?
I really just can't say because I don't know you.First you need to consider how much volume you can handle. Volume means the total number of lifts. 4 sets of 10 and 5 sets of 8 are both 40 total lifts. Can you handle 40 total lifts? Meaning will all the reps be effective or will they just be garbage volume that isn't doing anything (meaning you are just going through the motions)? This is a concept most people don't understand. This is where the "more is not always better" idea comes from. Volume is very important and high volume training works better for most people, but volume is not a replacement for training hard.Second you need to ask how should the volume be done. Meaning the set/rep scheme. This depends on the exercise, the goal of the exercise, and how strictly you want to do it. For most accessory work, you will want to do somewhere between 8-12 reps/set. However, you also need to consider the type of nervous system you have, meaning how close can you push yourself to failure. If you can really push yourself hard, then you won't need to do as many sets because you get more out of each set.Start of with 3 sets of 10 and add more sets in if you feel like it. I personally would do anywhere from 2-8 sets on these assistance exercise. Just make sure you are putting 100% effort into each rep.
Last question (until I think of another one). Should the weight be going up or down as you move through the 5×5 sets? Meaning should I be lifting the weight I can just barely do for 5 which would mean the weight would likely be going down from set to set.Also, suggested rest time between sets on this?
Last question (until I think of another one). Should the weight be going up or down as you move through the 5x5 sets? Meaning should I be lifting the weight I can just barely do for 5 which would mean the weight would likely be going down from set to set.Also, suggested rest time between sets on this?
Leave a rep or two in the tank for the first 4 sets. Then you can go balls out on the last set IF you are feeling good and strong.
Just wanted to give a quick update and genuinely thank you ibob.My max bench went from 225 for 1 (depending on the day if i even get it at all) to today where I did 225 for 4. 185 is now a work weight for me whereas before I could get it for 5-7 depending on the day.I can now squat 275 for 5 whereas before I was just a little over 225 (maybe 235) for 5. My lower body strength grows a lot faster than my upper body strength. My heavy deadlifts have gone up in reps. I could deadlift 315 for 3 or 4. Now I can do that for 5-7. I haven't tried a max on that yet though. I appreciate it and I think I'm going to do this for another month. Do another check on my maxes. Then switch back to a hypertrophy routine. Just wanted to give an update and say thanks again. I really appreciate it.As an aside - what subforum should I post about trying to do a "cut"? I feel like CN and Shockwave won't quite get what I'm looking for.
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