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I'm wondering how dirty I can go when carb-loading.I know Kiefer says don't eat like a fat kid (McDonalds, frozen pizzas etc) but instead eat real made versions of that stuff. But what about icecream? Oreos? Candy? Chocolate bars? I'm wondering how much I can indulge.I'm 27, weigh 185 pounds (84kgs), ~13% bf, 6 foot tall, have been weight training seriously for about a year now. On a 4 day upper/lower split, no cardio. Not sure if that info helps or not. Trying to find my six pack while build muscle.
That's honestly something you have to figure out, you can glucose based starches and even make your own “dirty” carbs.
you can indulge however much your body will let you while still getting results. It really depends from person to person. Keep in mind most of the things you listed are either high in sugar or sugar and fats. If you goal is to lean down and build muscle you are definitely going to want to pay attention to how much you are intaking. Kiefer has changed his stance on backload foods for a little bit now so if you are really serious about results once in a while is fine but you shouldn't be having that stuff all the time.
Thanks guys. @cgrimsl1 could you please elaborate a little on how he has changed his stance? Are there any articles of his that talk about this point further?And if I don't have that stuff - should I instead be eating white rice, white bread, sweet potatoes etc?
Abel James Podcast, Road to Rip Podcast, Carb-Backloading On a Tight Budget Podcast, and the Q&A Podcast from Body.io
Are there any articles? I'll dig through those pod casts if I have to but I'm pressed for time so would rather read an article over a listen to a podcast.
Hey man Tex has got it covered. Kiefer begun doing podcasts at the start of this year and that is how he has been relaying all of his information to the book buyers. However, if you would like to get the information straight from him he does have a twitter (DH Kiefer) and answers peoples questions daily. You can also checkout Dangerously Hardcore on Facebook where he posts information.To elaborate on how he changed his stance if you look at how the book is written there are very few carb sources that Kiefer recommends you be restrictive with (low glycemic carbs/high fructose corn syrup/sucrose in moderation). While now he is saying that starches/dextrose/and other glucose based carb sources are best and optimal. He is getting away from the gimic of carb-backloading (indulge on all the "no no" foods at night after lifting and don't gain weight) and now telling people how to optimize the diet.Your suggestions for carb sources are good ones: rice, white potatoes, white bread, non wheat base cereals, pure dextrose, white flour based baked goods, etc. These are sources that are going to optimize your results but that is not to say that you can't indulge. A certain level of indulgence keeps you on track the other 98% of the time so certainly if you want something have it and exercise moderation. Just don't go down a tub of ice cream, a package of oreos, and a bunch of hersey's bars during the week and wonder why you aren't seeing results.
Hey man Tex has got it covered. Kiefer begun doing podcasts at the start of this year and that is how he has been relaying all of his information to the book buyers. However, if you would like to get the information straight from him he does have a twitter (DH Kiefer) and answers peoples questions daily. You can also checkout Dangerously Hardcore on Facebook where he posts information.To elaborate on how he changed his stance if you look at how the book is written there are very few carb sources that Kiefer recommends you be restrictive with (low glycemic carbs/high fructose corn syrup/sucrose in moderation). While now he is saying that starches/dextrose/and other glucose based carb sources are best and optimal. He is getting away from the gimic of carb-backloading (indulge on all the "no no" foods at night after lifting and don't gain weight) and now telling people how to optimize the diet.Your suggestions for carb sources are good ones: rice, white potatoes, white bread, non wheat base cereals, pure dextrose, white flour based baked goods, etc. These are sources that are going to optimize your results but that is not to say that you can't indulge. A certain level of indulgence keeps you on track the other 98% of the time so certainly if you want something have it and exercise moderation. Just don't go down a tub of ice cream, a package of oreos, and a bunch of hersey's bars during the week and wonder why you aren't seeing results.
Personally I think there is nothing wrong with sugars and "junk" from a fatloss perspective and actually that sugars might be better than starches for faloss. What's more important IMO is overall carbs and calories.
Thanks guys 🙂My basic diet plan is as follows, please let me know if it works.TRAINING DAY
- 9am Wake up - coffee and heavy cream, or AM accelerator
- 12pm Lunch - Usually fish or meat (chicken, sausages, steak, lamb, etc) with salad (tomatoes, lettuce, red bell pepper, avocado, onion, cucumber, etc)
- 3pm Snack - nuts or maybe a piece of leftover meat
- 5pm Workout
- 6pm PWO shake - Hypertrophic Potentiator formula in book
- 7 or 8pm Dinner - Meat + veggies or salad + carbs (white rice, sweet potato, white bread, etc)
Maybe once a week have some sort of pastry or icecream etc as dessert (at 8pm-ish)NON-TRAINING DAY
- 9am Wake up - coffee and heavy cream, or AM accelerator
- 12pm Lunch - Usually fish or meat (chicken, sausages, steak, lamb, etc) with salad (tomatoes, lettuce, red bell pepper, avocado, onion, cucumber, etc)
- 3pm Snack - nuts or maybe a piece of leftover meat
- 7 or 8pm Dinner - Meat + veggies or salad
I train 4 days a week. Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri. So I plan on having carby dinner sunday night too even though its not a training day, because the Monday training comes after two consecutive days off.
for myself to get leaner I found sweet potatoes and white rice work the best.. i have tried heavy sugar loads and always felt like crap afterwards…
Hey man Tex has got it covered. Kiefer begun doing podcasts at the start of this year and that is how he has been relaying all of his information to the book buyers. However, if you would like to get the information straight from him he does have a twitter (DH Kiefer) and answers peoples questions daily. You can also checkout Dangerously Hardcore on Facebook where he posts information.To elaborate on how he changed his stance if you look at how the book is written there are very few carb sources that Kiefer recommends you be restrictive with (low glycemic carbs/high fructose corn syrup/sucrose in moderation). While now he is saying that starches/dextrose/and other glucose based carb sources are best and optimal. He is getting away from the gimic of carb-backloading (indulge on all the "no no" foods at night after lifting and don't gain weight) and now telling people how to optimize the diet.Your suggestions for carb sources are good ones: rice, white potatoes, white bread, non wheat base cereals, pure dextrose, white flour based baked goods, etc. These are sources that are going to optimize your results but that is not to say that you can't indulge. A certain level of indulgence keeps you on track the other 98% of the time so certainly if you want something have it and exercise moderation. Just don't go down a tub of ice cream, a package of oreos, and a bunch of hersey's bars during the week and wonder why you aren't seeing results.
Personally I think there is nothing wrong with sugars and "junk" from a fatloss perspective and actually that sugars might be better than starches for faloss. What's more important IMO is overall carbs and calories.
I definitely agree with this to some extent. Overall numbers are certainly going to dictate which way you are going. I think it is way easier to overeat w/"junk" vs rice/potatoes mainly for reasons of getting full faster. At a certain point though you will run into difficulties with fatloss if you are trying to use "junk" I'm not positive at what % this is (I'm assuming it is probably 10% or below) but plenty of bodybuilders have attested to trying IIFYM eating whatever and said that getting stage ready is a lot harder that way.Benny be sure to watch incidental carb numbers from your salad and nuts. You'll probably be fine if they aren't huge portions but it is something to pay attention to. Also you may not need the backload on Sunday (I only say this because you are trying to lean down) you may want to experiment and see how you feel at Monday's workout w/ or w/o backloading on Sunday.
I'm wondering how dirty I can go when carb-loading.I know Kiefer says don't eat like a fat kid (McDonalds, frozen pizzas etc) but instead eat real made versions of that stuff. But what about icecream? Oreos? Candy? Chocolate bars? I'm wondering how much I can indulge.I'm 27, weigh 185 pounds (84kgs), ~13% bf, 6 foot tall, have been weight training seriously for about a year now. On a 4 day upper/lower split, no cardio. Not sure if that info helps or not. Trying to find my six pack while build muscle.
As everyone else said this is individual, but judging from your stats, you probably won't be able to handle much junk. You're just not that big of a guy.Eat mainly whole foods and have the ice cream on the side.
Hey man Tex has got it covered. Kiefer begun doing podcasts at the start of this year and that is how he has been relaying all of his information to the book buyers. However, if you would like to get the information straight from him he does have a twitter (DH Kiefer) and answers peoples questions daily. You can also checkout Dangerously Hardcore on Facebook where he posts information.To elaborate on how he changed his stance if you look at how the book is written there are very few carb sources that Kiefer recommends you be restrictive with (low glycemic carbs/high fructose corn syrup/sucrose in moderation). While now he is saying that starches/dextrose/and other glucose based carb sources are best and optimal. He is getting away from the gimic of carb-backloading (indulge on all the "no no" foods at night after lifting and don't gain weight) and now telling people how to optimize the diet.Your suggestions for carb sources are good ones: rice, white potatoes, white bread, non wheat base cereals, pure dextrose, white flour based baked goods, etc. These are sources that are going to optimize your results but that is not to say that you can't indulge. A certain level of indulgence keeps you on track the other 98% of the time so certainly if you want something have it and exercise moderation. Just don't go down a tub of ice cream, a package of oreos, and a bunch of hersey's bars during the week and wonder why you aren't seeing results.
Personally I think there is nothing wrong with sugars and "junk" from a fatloss perspective and actually that sugars might be better than starches for faloss. What's more important IMO is overall carbs and calories.
From my experience, starches tend to give me better fat loss results. Kiefer also says the same with his clients.Â
Hey man Tex has got it covered. Kiefer begun doing podcasts at the start of this year and that is how he has been relaying all of his information to the book buyers. However, if you would like to get the information straight from him he does have a twitter (DH Kiefer) and answers peoples questions daily. You can also checkout Dangerously Hardcore on Facebook where he posts information.To elaborate on how he changed his stance if you look at how the book is written there are very few carb sources that Kiefer recommends you be restrictive with (low glycemic carbs/high fructose corn syrup/sucrose in moderation). While now he is saying that starches/dextrose/and other glucose based carb sources are best and optimal. He is getting away from the gimic of carb-backloading (indulge on all the "no no" foods at night after lifting and don't gain weight) and now telling people how to optimize the diet.Your suggestions for carb sources are good ones: rice, white potatoes, white bread, non wheat base cereals, pure dextrose, white flour based baked goods, etc. These are sources that are going to optimize your results but that is not to say that you can't indulge. A certain level of indulgence keeps you on track the other 98% of the time so certainly if you want something have it and exercise moderation. Just don't go down a tub of ice cream, a package of oreos, and a bunch of hersey's bars during the week and wonder why you aren't seeing results.
Personally I think there is nothing wrong with sugars and "junk" from a fatloss perspective and actually that sugars might be better than starches for fatloss. What's more important IMO is overall carbs and calories.
From my experience, starches tend to give me better fat loss results. Kiefer also says the same with his clients.
Would you agree that overall carbs and calories is still far more important though? (:
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