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The book doesn't say it, and I have just assumed it from all the talk about Backloading lately, but when on CNS, is it detrimental to do something that spikes insulin at any time other than the Carb Night?For instance, I like to eat a significant portion of eggs for lunch... insulin spike. CNS book says Whey protein is important. Does taking a whey isolate(more than 10g) with leucine spike insulin, and hurt CNS progress?
I believe if you take it with 1-2 tbsp coconut oil or MCT oil it won't spike insulin to the point of being detrimental.
Indeed, but the thing is, I can't find anything actually saying that spiking insulin while on CNS is detrimental. All this insulin spike prevention came about recently in regards to backloading and appears to have been inferred retroactively to CNS by association. I'm looking for anything solid that says it actually matters or doesn't matter for CNS.
I don't specifically remember him saying anything about that in particular. You mention that you like to eat a significant amount of eggs at lunch, what would you call significant? One of his meal plan days calls for 4 fried eggs at breakfast. Is that what you would call significant? If so, then I wouldn't worry about it since it is in one of his recommended meal plans for fat/protein days.
I've been wondering if anything has changed since the two books. Maybe new research has proven some things in CNS to be outdated? In CBL, it's recommended to eat a decent amount of fat to stop the insulin spike. From my understanding I would think that you don't want any insulin spike when doing CNS. That's my take on it though.
Indeed, but the thing is, I can't find anything actually saying that spiking insulin while on CNS is detrimental. All this insulin spike prevention came about recently in regards to backloading and appears to have been inferred retroactively to CNS by association. I'm looking for anything solid that says it actually matters or doesn't matter for CNS.
You can't prevent insulin being released on CNS -- that's really not what makes the diet work. Insulin will be triggered by the consumption of amino acids, and on a diet made entirely out of protein and fat, you'll be doing that all the time.The goal is to mitigate gluconeogenesis and the secretion of insulin through the use of fat and certain protein foods (e.g. ham). You want your body to subsist on fatty acids, not on glucose created from proteins.The amount of eggs you'd have to consume to cause enough gluconeogenesis to endanger the effectiveness of the diet is half a dozen, I believe. Perhaps less for smaller persons. Protein shakes can do it too, depending their contents (and that's a huge tangent I'm not getting into here).Do not try to do a low-fat or even moderate-fat Carb Nite: it just won't work.
What I was told by Fox that MCT oil taken with a PWO Shake will “blunt” the affects of an insulin spike, not stop it. That fat helps but won't completely stop it.
DH Naomi wrote:Do not try to do a low-fat or even moderate-fat Carb Nite: it just won't work.Naomi, could you provide some definitions of low and moderate-fat? I suppose numbers as ratios to protein would be most informative.DH Naomi wrote:Do not try to do a low-fat or even moderate-fat Carb Nite: it just won't work.Naomi, could you provide some definitions of low and moderate-fat? I suppose numbers as ratios to protein would be most informative.Good point (I shouldn't use relative terms like that without definition). How about I just say this: you should be getting at least 60% of your dietary calories from fat, and you'll probably end up getting 75%.You're after a 50/50 split by GRAMS.So for example, if I eat 135g of protein (1.0 to bodyweight, for me), I want to eat 135g of fat, which comes out to about 2000 calories per day when you factor in the incidental carbs.But don't eat by numbers if you can help it... just make friends with butter and coconut oil. 🙂
I picked up the cns book as well and am attempting to learn more from it in regards to fat loss to aid in my goals here. I believe I am best served by shedding more fat to get to that 6 pack goal before I start up carb backloading. Today was my first day and my first run at the 30 grams of carbs and I rounded out at 2500 cals for the day and 208 grams protein and 153 grams of fat with 31 grams of usable carbs (57 grams total carbs – 26 grams fiber). It is going to take some adjustment to tweak it but I am hoping that I am getting this right. I have to take about another week to heal with no heavy lifting so workouts are a wash this week, hopefully can get back at it strong after I am done healing.
I picked up the cns book as well and am attempting to learn more from it in regards to fat loss to aid in my goals here. I believe I am best served by shedding more fat to get to that 6 pack goal before I start up carb backloading. Today was my first day and my first run at the 30 grams of carbs and I rounded out at 2500 cals for the day and 208 grams protein and 153 grams of fat with 31 grams of usable carbs (57 grams total carbs - 26 grams fiber). It is going to take some adjustment to tweak it but I am hoping that I am getting this right. I have to take about another week to heal with no heavy lifting so workouts are a wash this week, hopefully can get back at it strong after I am done healing.
Right on. Actually many people who have done Carb Nite and CBL find themselves alternating between the two depending on circumstances -- myself and Kiefer included.Handy diet protocols to have in your body toolkit!
Naomi, when you say alternating between the 2, what period would you do either 1for before swapping? Just curious as I am presently doing the prep period for CBL, to do density bulking leading up to my first PL comp in May and was wondering whether to switch to SA or CNS?
It would depend on your goal I would think. If your primary goal is fat loss then I would use CNS, if fat loss with some muscle gain is your primary goal then go strength accumulation from cbl and if muscle is your primary goal with fat maintenance then go density bulking from cbl. The goal will determine the approach, mine is muscle maintenance for now because I want to shed fat the most and if I am lucky enough in the process to add a little more muscle. The longest he recommends for cns is 6 mths tops with a month off cns. So 6 mths cns say 1 mth strength accumulation then back to cns would make a great fat loss/add muscle setup if fat loss is the primary goal.
Right on. Actually many people who have done Carb Nite and CBL find themselves alternating between the two depending on circumstances -- myself and Kiefer included.Handy diet protocols to have in your body toolkit!
Naomi, I was thinking about this just in terms of the concept, and it led me to question the preparation phase common to both approaches. What can you say about how the preparation phase affects the beginning of CBL coming from a regular diet, coming from CNS, OR how it affects CNS coming from CBL or a regular diet?In the CNS book it seemed very important (Rule #something: Carb Nites can be no closer than 5 days apart) to deplete glycogen stores and get yourself at or around a ketotic state. However, CBL may involve carbs 5-7 nights of the week...depending on how obsessive someone's lifting routine may be.Feel free to be OVERLY detailed and redundant 😉
Right on. Actually many people who have done Carb Nite and CBL find themselves alternating between the two depending on circumstances -- myself and Kiefer included.Handy diet protocols to have in your body toolkit!
Naomi, I was thinking about this just in terms of the concept, and it led me to question the preparation phase common to both approaches. What can you say about how the preparation phase affects the beginning of CBL coming from a regular diet, coming from CNS, OR how it affects CNS coming from CBL or a regular diet?In the CNS book it seemed very important (Rule #something: Carb Nites can be no closer than 5 days apart) to deplete glycogen stores and get yourself at or around a ketotic state. However, CBL may involve carbs 5-7 nights of the week...depending on how obsessive someone's lifting routine may be.Feel free to be OVERLY detailed and redundant 😉
OK. 🙂The Carb Nite diet and the CBL prep phase are pretty much the same thing. You are spending those 9 days teaching your body how to rely on fatty acids as its primary fuel source. For most people coming out of the Standard American Diet, this process tends to be a rocky and somewhat obnoxious one.However, for you superheroes who have done either CBL or Carb Nite in recent history (i.e. the last few months), the transition to fatty acid-preferential metabolism shouldn't be a hard one. You bodies already know how to use ketones, and you've probably already done some heavy resistance training in an ultra-low-carb state and understand how it all feels.So. I believe CBL works best for those who have been through a few cycles of Carb Nite, as the fatty acid metabolic state has been "burned in" pretty well, and carb usage in the absence of high insulin spikes should be extremely inefficient (that's what we want).If you are transitioning between CBL and Carb Nite, all you need to do is make sure you go through at LEAST a 6-day ultra-low-carb state before your carb-up day, and I'm betting Kiefer would say do the full 10-day cycle to be safe.You probably know this already, but you can use HIIT to deplete glycogen down so that the process of switching to fatty-acid metabolism occurs earlier. But I would advise making sure you have some clear indications for yourself about where you are in your carb-depletion cycle.My rule of thumb about being ready for a carb-up is that my weight should be at most 130lbs (that's the lowest weight I routinely reach) and I should feel kinda "tight" in the midsection when I wake up, like I have to stretch my abs for a few minutes to get my lungs expanded to their fullest capacity.If you can help it, by the way, try and schedule a hard workout to occur on the afternoon of a Carb Nite (before all your carbs). It should feel pretty awesome both during and post-workout.I hope that answers your question? Basically, people who have been doing CBL properly should have no problem dropping quickly into ketosis within the first 4-5 days of Carb Nite (maybe even sooner) -- BUT you need to have a really good personal feedback system if you want to cut corners.
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