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Hey guys and girls hope your all well.I've been pretty much glued to these threads and updates for a few months now and what Keifer seems to say does make a lot of sense to me (having been a fat kid myself a chance to load up on carbs and loose fat and put on muscle = the holy grail)I've tried out a CBL mixed with the shockwave protocol from what I could find both online and throughout the website as I personally wanted to see if the diet and workouts did produce results (before i invest in the book..which i WILL definitely be doing now..I wasn't going to invest a larger than normal amount of money for a book that didn't work...can't blame me for taking things too cautiously) or if it was just another cleverly marketed idea....and to my joy it worked probably better than anticipated. Energy levels through the roof, noticeable fat loss, muscle gain and a great mood boost. 210lb down to 185lb in just over two months...probably not all down to fat loss but I would say a considerable amount of it is.Now to my actual issue. After reading through numerous articles I've decided I'm going to be switching to CNS before switching back on to CBL as I want to lean right down before I start making any gains. From what I can find the diet part itself works as just a recurring prep phase for CBL which is fats and proteins, keeping the the carbs to a bare minimum thus using fats as an energy source and reducing insulin spikes. My one main concern is that having read articles online, I've also come across proteins can cause an insulin spike too. This being said would not consuming too much fats along with proteins lead to a negative effect of insulin spikes taking place, the body creating new fat stores and then having the fats readily available to fill them ? If anybody could clear up what I'm missing that would be great.Thanks for any answersRegardsRay
Depends on the protein source, really. Here is my $0.02… but perhaps someone will disagree with me.Egg whites and whey protein, for instance, can spike insulin, which is why it is recommended (I read) to go with whey isolate (pure, not blended -- check the ingredients, some companies sneak in some concentrate). Whey isolate, from what I've read, doesn't spike it as bad.Fat can slow an insulin spike, or even blunt it altogether. Keep your fats 1:1 with protein, as best you can, and it should be OK.I have been on CNS for the prep week, tomorrow is my first carb nite. I also get fat REALLY easily, so I know where you're coming from. I am vegetarian, so I use a LOT of whey isolate in my diet... but I eat it with fats (sometimes I add heavy cream to it... really nice). In the first 3 days, I dropped 2 lbs. By the 6th day, I dropped 4 lbs. Pretty steady decline in weight. My end goal is to hit btw. 200-210 lbs, and then go back on CBL.Anyhow, the CNS book is only $20.99 at Amazon.com. That is where I got my copy. Excellent price, and great book. With shipping / tax, I paid around $27, all said and done.Cory
Depends on the protein source, really. Here is my $0.02... but perhaps someone will disagree with me.Egg whites and whey protein, for instance, can spike insulin, which is why it is recommended (I read) to go with whey isolate (pure, not blended -- check the ingredients, some companies sneak in some concentrate). Whey isolate, from what I've read, doesn't spike it as bad.Fat can slow an insulin spike, or even blunt it altogether. Keep your fats 1:1 with protein, as best you can, and it should be OK.I have been on CNS for the prep week, tomorrow is my first carb nite. I also get fat REALLY easily, so I know where you're coming from. I am vegetarian, so I use a LOT of whey isolate in my diet... but I eat it with fats (sometimes I add heavy cream to it... really nice). In the first 3 days, I dropped 2 lbs. By the 6th day, I dropped 4 lbs. Pretty steady decline in weight. My end goal is to hit btw. 200-210 lbs, and then go back on CBL.Anyhow, the CNS book is only $20.99 at Amazon.com. That is where I got my copy. Excellent price, and great book. With shipping / tax, I paid around $27, all said and done.Cory
+1 Great answer, just thought i would add... excessive amounts of protein on CNS should be avoided as it is possible to be used as a source of fuel. Its better to eat MORE fat if you cant get the 50/50 protein/fat ration to a "T".. Just to be safe. Good luck on your future endevours with CNS.
True. Keep your protein in check, and go no higher than 1.3g protein per pound of lean bodyweight, per day. The only thing is, it is better to have protein a bit lower, only b/c fats need to match as closely as possible. So, if you go eating 234g per day in protein (if you're 180 lbs lean, for instance), you need to do the same (or about the same) in fats. That is quite a bit of fat to consume!Even with the book, as I've found, the diet requires constant tweaking... you need to use Keifer's guidelines appropriately for yourself. The forums will help quite a lot!Cory
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm not too worried for post workout meals it's just pre workout I had concerns about as I normally have a meal consisting of chicken wings and fats, from what you've replied this should be fine if kept a little higher on the fats side. Think I'll be aiming for the 175g mark. I've read 1g protein per pound of body weight is sufficient and I know my body weight isn't 100% pure lean muscle. Haha consuming fats hopefully shouldn't be too hard hopefully, think I'll be investing in some coconut oil and some other cheats like flax seeds. Buying the ebook tomorrow hopefully !! Just waiting on a new debit card to come through, banks just love to keep you waiting. Again thanks for the help guys !!
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm not too worried for post workout meals it's just pre workout I had concerns about as I normally have a meal consisting of chicken wings and fats, from what you've replied this should be fine if kept a little higher on the fats side. Think I'll be aiming for the 175g mark. I've read 1g protein per pound of body weight is sufficient and I know my body weight isn't 100% pure lean muscle. Haha consuming fats hopefully shouldn't be too hard hopefully, think I'll be investing in some coconut oil and some other cheats like flax seeds. Buying the ebook tomorrow hopefully !! Just waiting on a new debit card to come through, banks just love to keep you waiting. Again thanks for the help guys !!
No problem.Whatever meal you eat before the gym, should be 2-3 hours prior to the gym (at least). You need to train on an empty stomach (in a fasted-state). Here is what I use directly pre-workout (within 30-45 minutes):2 tsp instant coffee (yeilds 2 cups)4 tbsp heavy whipping cream1 tbsp coconut oil...and then in / with 8oz of water...1.5g Carnitine (mobilizes fat for energy)9g Glutamine (anti-catabolic, raises GH, a key for protein synthesis)3g Citrulline Malate (for a pump -- preferred over Arginine AKG)5g Creatine (inhibits myostatin, increases strength)1g Taurine (aids the function of skeletal muscle)6mg Melatonin (inhibits the breakdown of GH)Definitely invest in some good liquid fats like coconut oil, heavy whipping cream, omega 3-6-9 oil (combination), etc. Also, get some grass-fed, organic butter (preferably unsalted -- esp. for coffee use).Cory
That's an interesting pre workout cocktail you ve got there. Just curious what kind of weight are you lifting/ what is your workout regimine? I sometimes take the melatonin at night to sleep… how does that affect gh?
I'm always working out as a fasted state so that shouldn't be too much of an issue. Planned out what I'll be eating with rough estimations, any criticism welcome :-Wake up - 7am10/11 am - coffee with 30ml double cream & 1tbsp CO - 30g fat1.30pm lunch - chicken wings w.o skin (8 roughly 40g protein, 12g fat) Broccoli 1 cup (6g carb) (2 g fiber) Butter 50g (40g fat)Workout 6.30pm (late finishes at work !!) - following shockwave protocolpwo - Whey protein mix. 40g protein, 5g creatine, 5g leucine (also adding about 40g dextrose on carb nights)8 pm - Dinner 1 - Fish 100g (20g protein) Broccoli 1 cup(6 g carb)(2g fiber) Cheese 100g(32 g fat) (25g Protein) Butter 25g (20g fat)9 pm-Dinner 2 - Fish 100g (20g protein) Broccoli 1 cup(6 g carb)(2g fiber) Cheese 100g(32 g fat) (25g Protein) Butter 25g (20g fat)Total for day - 170g protein, 186g fat, 18g carbs, 6g fiber
A couple of things here, on carb nite it doesn't matter when you work out, fasted or not, it makes no difference. The mechanics of the diet create an environment that is similar to bring fasted without the negative side effects of muscle loss, etc.Also insulin spikes during CNS are impossible to avoid if you are following the diet correctly as lots of protein at one time causes a spike, it is not as intense as a carb spike though and much easier for the body to switch back to fat burning.Pointer in eggs, it is the protein in the yolk that seems to create a bigger spike in insulin.Lastly if you follow the book, add a little extra fat to everything you will make good progress. However, I don't know why you would switch if you are making such good progress with CBL? Seems you are dropping fat at a good rate already?
I generally work out on a fasted state just because I have a feeling of lazyness about me when I've eaten haha (hulk factor kicking in while fasted ?!?) I understand that the spikes are going to be impossible to avoid, it's more of a question of how to make sure to the best of my ability there are little negative implications when spikes are caused. In regards to your question on why I'm switching, when I first started CBL my body fat was quite high which I'm guessing led to the rapid fat loss which I do think will plateau on CBL and as fat loss is my main concern I prefer switching to CNS so I can focus on that.
That's an interesting pre workout cocktail you ve got there. Just curious what kind of weight are you lifting/ what is your workout regimine? I sometimes take the melatonin at night to sleep... how does that affect gh?
I lift, currently, like the old school guys. I am really fascinated by Bill Pearl, right now.3 days a week, full-body split, all compounds. No more than 90 seconds rest btw. sets. 3-4 sets at 6-8 reps, with 1-2 warm-up sets at 10-12 reps. Gym time totals 60-90 minutes a session.100% natural, no chemical "help".As for Melatonin, M&F magazine did an article in 2008 about hormone boosters. Melatonin suppresses the hormone that breaks down GH (much like an anti-aromotase does for testosterone). M&F recommended 5mg of Melatonin, but my pills come 3mg/ea., so I take two. Figure the extra mg ain't going to kill me.I don't use Melatonin before bed, I use 3 caps of ZMA + a daily dose of Cissus Quadrangularis.
Just stumbled on this thread. I used Melatonin at bedtime for a long time- still do if especially wired- and it's always had a thick kind of sleepy effect on me, as it's supposed to.You don't experience this when using it pre-workout?Also, do u take your PW supps an hour or 2 before with your coffee/MCT shake? Or supps right before workout.And I coulda sworn I heard Kiefer say somewhere to take the coffee right before training.Trying to figure out my pre-workout timing.Appreciate the help.
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