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It'd take some seriously messed up hormonal stuff to add midsection fat. But holding onto it despite dropping calories lower and lower and not seeing results is a different story.As for eating until not hungry, that can completely depend. You can train your body to be "not hungry" at very low calorie levels, despite the fact that you're way undereating. I hate speaking in terms of calories, cuz I kind of think calories are crap. They play a role, but nowhere near as much as people make it out to be. So I'll use the word energy instead. Humor me.So say your body needs X energy in order to operate at a maintenance level. Not gaining, not losing, just it's happy homeostasis. You restrict that down, say 20%. This works as a transient stressor for awhile, possibly seeing some WEIGHT (key is weight. not necessarily fat) loss. Then after awhile the body, wanting to create homeostasis again, downregulates your energy usage to match how much you're taking in. So now you may feel tired, brain-fog, or be asymptomatic while other things are happening, like your heart rate variability has become more monotonous in an effort to become as efficient as possible because it is lacking energy. So now the energy that your body is using is matched to what you're consuming, you're at homeostasis again, but a disadvantaged one. Your WEIGHT loss stops, so you go "oh crap, I must need to eat even less!" so you cut energy intake by another 10-20% percent. Your body then goes through another period of adapting, downregulating, and shutting off non-essential systems.. Systems that the body doesn't see as a base need to just survive. Things like (in women), their menstrual cycle. Why would the body want to be creating life in a time where it's having a hard time sustaining it's own? And the cycle goes on and on.Until the person finally gets fed up, and binges for a few weeks/months because they're no longer losing weight. Well now your body is operating at X minus 30-40%, and you're suddenly giving it X PLUS 20%+, so fat is stored in copious amounts. Not only because of the excess, but because your body is trying to plan ahead and store plenty of energy in case there is another "famine," like you just put yourself through. This is why you see people who lose weight the wrong way "rebound" and often get heavier than they were.So the moral of the story and the TL;DR is... Eat more. 🙂Sorry for the ridiculously long post, ha.
This is very useful information for me. I've actually thought about this before. But the dilemma is...if I don't create a calorie deficit, what makes me lose weight? extra exercise? or is it that as long as I meet my macro goals and eat a normal amount then I should be having fat loss?
How do you know whether you're undereating or not apart from keeping up with marcos?
Hard to say cuz it will vary with each person. Realistically though, the overwhelming majority of, particularly women, who are trying to "lose weight" will be undereating. Whether on purpose, or not.Basically, I'd say if you've cut consumption, and you find yourself stalled out, possibly holding excess fat around the midsection, or maybe in the thighs, you're potentially undereating.In which case, experimentation comes in. Bump up consumption for a couple weeks and see what happens.A good trainer/coach can also help identify this sort of thing.
Oh sheesh. Undereating can add excess fat around midsection? :'( you gotta be kidding me! I think I'm too paranoid of having excess fat around my midsection that I'm undereating. I actually do think I'm undereating, because I only eat a handful of food.. or is that normal? Because "that's what she said"!It's always about experimenting aye, since everyone is a bit different. I've got not a clue about my body still, it's quite a freaky mission if you ask me. I'm too afraid of eating too much 🙁 I just eat until I think I'm not hungry anymore.. is that a bad way to measure? xD
It'd take some seriously messed up hormonal stuff to add midsection fat. But holding onto it despite dropping calories lower and lower and not seeing results is a different story.As for eating until not hungry, that can completely depend. You can train your body to be "not hungry" at very low calorie levels, despite the fact that you're way undereating. I hate speaking in terms of calories, cuz I kind of think calories are crap. They play a role, but nowhere near as much as people make it out to be. So I'll use the word energy instead. Humor me.So say your body needs X energy in order to operate at a maintenance level. Not gaining, not losing, just it's happy homeostasis. You restrict that down, say 20%. This works as a transient stressor for awhile, possibly seeing some WEIGHT (key is weight. not necessarily fat) loss. Then after awhile the body, wanting to create homeostasis again, downregulates your energy usage to match how much you're taking in. So now you may feel tired, brain-fog, or be asymptomatic while other things are happening, like your heart rate variability has become more monotonous in an effort to become as efficient as possible because it is lacking energy. So now the energy that your body is using is matched to what you're consuming, you're at homeostasis again, but a disadvantaged one. Your WEIGHT loss stops, so you go "oh crap, I must need to eat even less!" so you cut energy intake by another 10-20% percent. Your body then goes through another period of adapting, downregulating, and shutting off non-essential systems.. Systems that the body doesn't see as a base need to just survive. Things like (in women), their menstrual cycle. Why would the body want to be creating life in a time where it's having a hard time sustaining it's own? And the cycle goes on and on.Until the person finally gets fed up, and binges for a few weeks/months because they're no longer losing weight. Well now your body is operating at X minus 30-40%, and you're suddenly giving it X PLUS 20%+, so fat is stored in copious amounts. Not only because of the excess, but because your body is trying to plan ahead and store plenty of energy in case there is another "famine," like you just put yourself through. This is why you see people who lose weight the wrong way "rebound" and often get heavier than they were.So the moral of the story and the TL;DR is... Eat more. 🙂Sorry for the ridiculously long post, ha.
WOOHOOO!!! NO WORRIES! I love long posts!! 😀 it means more information if not more emphasis has been established :3/excitement.I definitely think I am undereating then.I've started to get sleepy during the day, which is nuts; I felt sleepy on the prep phase because obviously I'm getting used to being on ketosis, and all the sluggishness are expected. However after loading 1 meal of carbs on the 18th till now, recently I've started to feel a bit sleepy; but not necessary crap like I was on prep phase. My nose started to pick up the faint smells of the bread lying on the bench tops, the smell of sugar crept up my nose, and the crave for sugar was big last night; even though I wasn't even hungry. I think it is definitely getting to me!I've just done a very very rough calorie count (eww, and its my first time doing so) with what I've put into my body today since morning:- coffee with coconut milk, if the calculator wasn't wrong then that's around 552 calories,- PWO shake after working out - approx. 120 calories- prime beef minced, 250g - 542 caloriesmy daily calorie intake to maintain weight is almost 2000 calories (1920 says the keto calculator, but its fat % for me is tots wrong) so I'm definitely under-eating; haven't had dinner yet; but wouldn't be anywhere 786 calories though!Don't know what to eat... perhaps I should buy some nuts x.x
To Finra,I'm not sure how much coconut milk you're putting in your coffee but 500 calories seem way too much.
To Finra,I'm not sure how much coconut milk you're putting in your coffee but 500 calories seem way too much.
It's only 1 cup of coconut milk lolI don't seem to be meeting up my totals either, so even if its 'too much' - I'm still undereating.
It's only 1 cup of coconut milk lolI don't seem to be meeting up my totals either, so even if its 'too much' - I'm still undereating.
1 cup of coconut milk has a lot of carbs for just coffee. You would be better off using those carbs for filling veggies and move to a heavy cream or butter which has more fat and is calorie dense.
This is very useful information for me. I've actually thought about this before. But the dilemma is...if I don't create a calorie deficit, what makes me lose weight? extra exercise? or is it that as long as I meet my macro goals and eat a normal amount then I should be having fat loss?
Lots of debate about this..Personally, I think this is where something like a Paleo template comes in. Keep in mind that Paleo isn't a diet, in the sense that "I'm on the paleo diet." Paleo is a template of what foods just make you PERSONALLY your healthiest.. Which means lots of whole foods, cutting processed stuff, etc. I firmly believe that when you consume the correct foods (nutritious, whole foods) that your body can handle a wider range of "calorie" intake... Because there is so much more nutrition available in these foods, your body can decide how much it needs to pull out of it and how much to just pass through as waste, etc. My example would be to consume nothing but 2000 calories of processed food and see what happens. Then consume 2000 calories of fresh meats, seafood, vegetables, good oils, etc and see what happens. Your body will handle that calorie load in VERY different ways, producing very different results.There have been a lot of discussions on the board lately about whether it's a calorie deficit or something else that causes fat loss. I personally don't believe a calorie deficit is NECESSARY. It can work/help, but not for everyone. There are too many variables. Something like your digestive health that greatly skew how many calories you actually ABSORB vs how many you eat. (If you eat 2000, but your digestion is wonked, you may only actually USE 1400 of those, for example) Not to mention it's impossible to tell how many calories each person needs everyday. Every person is different, and everybody's "calorie burning rate" changes at many points during the day.For fat loss, I look at it like this.. There needs to be a deficit--but I think that deficit needs to be in raw storage materials that fat cells can use. And these diets do a pretty good job of that. CNS you're ULC all day every day, so there is very little material your fat cells can grab onto to fill up with, then on the night of the CN, we purposely spike insulin high, so when it rebounds low we get that compensation of up-regulated fat burning. On CBL, we keep ULC during the day, and we introduce carbs only after a workout(generally), which primes the MUSCLES to absorb the bulk of that storage material, while somewhat blocking the fat cells from taking any of that material.Extra exercise is virtually never the answer, I think. Even Kiefer has said that research shows that exercise doesn't directly effect fat loss until something like 9 months of continuous activity. Throw on top of that the anecdotal evidence that well respected trainers like Jim Wendler, Robb Wolf, Jason Seib, Jim Laird, etc have seen where they can basically have (women especially) eat correctly for their body, walk everyday, and do some slow progressions lifting weight and see the fat just drop right off.
WOOHOOO!!! NO WORRIES! I love long posts!! 😀 it means more information if not more emphasis has been established :3/excitement.I definitely think I am undereating then.I've started to get sleepy during the day, which is nuts; I felt sleepy on the prep phase because obviously I'm getting used to being on ketosis, and all the sluggishness are expected. However after loading 1 meal of carbs on the 18th till now, recently I've started to feel a bit sleepy; but not necessary crap like I was on prep phase. My nose started to pick up the faint smells of the bread lying on the bench tops, the smell of sugar crept up my nose, and the crave for sugar was big last night; even though I wasn't even hungry. I think it is definitely getting to me!I've just done a very very rough calorie count (eww, and its my first time doing so) with what I've put into my body today since morning:- coffee with coconut milk, if the calculator wasn't wrong then that's around 552 calories,- PWO shake after working out - approx. 120 calories- prime beef minced, 250g - 542 caloriesmy daily calorie intake to maintain weight is almost 2000 calories (1920 says the keto calculator, but its fat % for me is tots wrong) so I'm definitely under-eating; haven't had dinner yet; but wouldn't be anywhere 786 calories though!Don't know what to eat... perhaps I should buy some nuts x.x
Getting sleepy during the day could be a ton of things.. not just a sign of undereating. Could also be something crazy that you wouldn't associate with it, like your digestion is struggling, so your body shunts a lot of energy toward your gut to help out. This leaves you feeling drowsy. Think like on Thanksgiving and you eat a big meal then an hour or two later you wanna take a nap. A lot of that is because your body is focusing it's energy into that digestion of a large meal, but if your digestion is broken, even small meals could require extra energy to handle.And yeah, if that's all you eat in a day, I'd say eat more. Always, when ramping up intake though, do it slowly over a period of weeks to allow your body time to adapt. Unless you're ok with a potential stall for a couple weeks as your body tries to compensate for a large energy jump. (Personally, I usually just jump. So if I want to increase from 2000 to 3000 cal, I'll just start eating 3000. My progress will stall for 2-3 weeks, but once my body gets back to it's happy place, progress resumes. This just isn't as healthy as doing 2200 for a week, 2400 for a week, 2600 for a week, etc).This is my personal opinion only.. But any adult that is consuming an AVERAGE of <=1500 kcal/day is undereating. Notice that I said AVERAGE. Calorie intake isn't a day-by-day thing, it's better to look at it over a 4,5,6,7 day window. Like with CNS, you may be at a 500 cal deficit DAILY, but then when you get to your CN your intake that day is a 2500 cal surplus, that makes it for the week you were only at a 500 cal deficit for the week.Also, I'm with shrenlee. That's a lot of carbs from coconut milk, especially first thing in the AM..
So yesterday was CN. Pretty good overall. Didn't have the super bloated feeling. Today has been weird…it's 3 in the afternoon and I'm still not hungry. So far I've just had some coffee with coconut oil and HWC. Is it okay if I follow “eat when hungry, stop when not”?
So yesterday was CN. Pretty good overall. Didn't have the super bloated feeling. Today has been weird...it's 3 in the afternoon and I'm still not hungry. So far I've just had some coffee with coconut oil and HWC. Is it okay if I follow "eat when hungry, stop when not"?
That's normal. I usually fast the next day till dinner:)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
It's only 1 cup of coconut milk lolI don't seem to be meeting up my totals either, so even if its 'too much' - I'm still undereating.
1 cup of coconut milk has a lot of carbs for just coffee. You would be better off using those carbs for filling veggies and move to a heavy cream or butter which has more fat and is calorie dense.
Also, I'm with shrenlee. That's a lot of carbs from coconut milk, especially first thing in the AM..
You know what.I totally forgot coconut milk had carbs in it./headdesks
So yesterday was CN. Pretty good overall. Didn't have the super bloated feeling. Today has been weird...it's 3 in the afternoon and I'm still not hungry. So far I've just had some coffee with coconut oil and HWC. Is it okay if I follow "eat when hungry, stop when not"?
That's normal. I usually fast the next day till dinner:)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Wow, how do you manage that?You still have the coffee and coconut oil right?
So yesterday was CN. Pretty good overall. Didn't have the super bloated feeling. Today has been weird...it's 3 in the afternoon and I'm still not hungry. So far I've just had some coffee with coconut oil and HWC. Is it okay if I follow "eat when hungry, stop when not"?
That's normal. I usually fast the next day till dinner:)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Wow, how do you manage that?You still have the coffee and coconut oil right?
Even on ULC days I start eating around noon. I do have my 'fatty coffee' first thing in the morning tho. As far as the morning after CN... It's not in the protocol, but intuitively, I've been having just black coffee. I do hold on to glycogen like it's my job:) Also, I haven't been training either. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Something really weird…So I weighted myself the morning of CN and I was at 151.3 lbs. Then the morning after CN I was at 151.9 lbs. This morning, the second morning after CN, I am 152.9 lbs......how does this happen? I was strictly ULC yesterday, eating around 1700 calories (not much deficit but definitely not over) with 10 g carbs, 140 g fat, and 100 g protein....I'm thinking maybe I didn't drink enough water yesterday? Or ate too salty? Or because of shark week?
Weighing your self daily can be a huge issue for some people. DONT DO IT! Weight fluctuates so much from day to day that all you are doing is stressing yourself out.
Weighing your self daily can be a huge issue for some people. DONT DO IT! Weight fluctuates so much from day to day that all you are doing is stressing yourself out.
+1 !!!
So I weighted myself the morning of CN and I was at 151.3 lbs. Then the morning after CN I was at 151.9 lbs. This morning, the second morning after CN, I am 152.9 lbs......how does this happen?
It's just water. Like Gnomer said, don't weight yourself. ESPECIALLY not daily. It lies.
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