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sounds good, lol! do you do that every workout day (=CBL) or do you do CNS? kind of sounded like you just like to call your backloads carb nights, because you eat throughout the night 😛
Hey Jizzmo,No, I am on CNS. I am just helping Pete w/ his CBL, since I am vegetarian (and so is he).I did CBL for a month, before switching to CNS to drop fat faster. I will be returning to CBL, in time. On CBL, yes, I gorged like a beast, too. I was a little more 'reasonable' on off-days, but on training days... I ran up a considerable junk food bill.Cory
sounds good, lol! do you do that every workout day (=CBL) or do you do CNS? kind of sounded like you just like to call your backloads carb nights, because you eat throughout the night 😛
Hey Jizzmo,No, I am on CNS. I am just helping Pete w/ his CBL, since I am vegetarian (and so is he).I did CBL for a month, before switching to CNS to drop fat faster. I will be returning to CBL, in time. On CBL, yes, I gorged like a beast, too. I was a little more 'reasonable' on off-days, but on training days... I ran up a considerable junk food bill.Cory
Interesting! Do you consider CBL more of a maintaining/gaining thing and CNS more of a pure fat loss-thing?
I do not spend more than $100, typically, on groceries a week. I have the luxury of having a job that allots me a small food allowance, per day, via Seamless Web (not out of my own pocket). So, for five business days a week, I use that to order 11 boiled eggs, each day. That saves me money on grocery bills — to the effect of 55 eggs a week.
That's great!
The gorging is my CNS. Even when I was CBL, I didn't count macros. My calories HAD to be in the ballpark of 5000-7000 per day, quite easily... a little less on non-workout days (as I didn't feel the need to gorge as much). That said, I gained no fat, but built muscle. So, it worked -- just not for profound fat loss.
Appetite is definitely something I have to work on. I can't even imagine eating 7000 calories. I sometimes have a hard time with 3000. At the same time, I always eat very clean. I have been adding coconut oil to almost everything and with backloading itself, it should be easier. I'm not sure about the long term health effects though. Some of the baked stuff is just not good for you. I'm not sweating it for now. I sometimes get cheese danishes or cinnamon rolls and when you look at the ingredient list... horror! ;D Maybe the Whole Foods stuff is slightly better. Will look into it.
This past Saturday, on Carb Nite, I started with 2 iced cinnamon rolls (not very fatty, more carby), and ate an entire pack of Whole Foods' raspberry filled 'streudel cookies' (this new thing they released). I try to keep the first CN meal more carby, less fatty.
I must be getting the wrong stuff. For example, last night I bought Cheese Danish Twist. The whole thing had 80g of fat and included all the evil stuff possible. From high fructose corn syrup to soy flower to artificial stuff.
About three hours later, I had Thai takeout (Pad Thai, veggie pancakes and Thai Iced Tea). On top of this, I had two donuts (Whole Foods).
I have no problem eating tons of Thai food and donuts, haha... my favorites right here!
I was so stuffed by my final meal, I just had 3 scoops of whey w/ the last few bites of take out I couldn't finish earlier. I felt like puking.I woke up this morning, and I feel like I am having a food hang-over. This is not uncommon after an all-out gorge fest. Throbbing headache, etc.
This is what I mean. I know we all wanna be ripped, but this just doesn't sound like a sustainable long term plan. Or does it? Can you eat like this for years without any health issues?
sounds good, lol! do you do that every workout day (=CBL) or do you do CNS? kind of sounded like you just like to call your backloads carb nights, because you eat throughout the night 😛
Hey Jizzmo,No, I am on CNS. I am just helping Pete w/ his CBL, since I am vegetarian (and so is he).I did CBL for a month, before switching to CNS to drop fat faster. I will be returning to CBL, in time. On CBL, yes, I gorged like a beast, too. I was a little more 'reasonable' on off-days, but on training days... I ran up a considerable junk food bill.Cory
Interesting! Do you consider CBL more of a maintaining/gaining thing and CNS more of a pure fat loss-thing?
Yes, for me.I gained muscle on CBL, but my fat levels remained rather steady. That said, at that level of calorie intake, and with my history of fat-gain, I should've been obese by end of that month!!!I remember during CBL, hitting a diner with friends around midnight (sometimes twice a week), and eating pancakes, onion rings, french fries, maple syrup, etc., etc... I didn't gain a friggin' ounce of fat. Actually, I did drop about 1 lb. of fat in that month of CBL... but, I wanted to lean out faster... so I switched to CNS. Since the switch, I have dropped approx. 21-22 lbs. of fat. Muscle maintains.For others, CBL may be different.Cory
I do not spend more than $100, typically, on groceries a week. I have the luxury of having a job that allots me a small food allowance, per day, via Seamless Web (not out of my own pocket). So, for five business days a week, I use that to order 11 boiled eggs, each day. That saves me money on grocery bills -- to the effect of 55 eggs a week.
That's great!
The gorging is my CNS. Even when I was CBL, I didn't count macros. My calories HAD to be in the ballpark of 5000-7000 per day, quite easily... a little less on non-workout days (as I didn't feel the need to gorge as much). That said, I gained no fat, but built muscle. So, it worked -- just not for profound fat loss.
Appetite is definitely something I have to work on. I can't even imagine eating 7000 calories. I sometimes have a hard time with 3000. At the same time, I always eat very clean. I have been adding coconut oil to almost everything and with backloading itself, it should be easier. I'm not sure about the long term health effects though. Some of the baked stuff is just not good for you. I'm not sweating it for now. I sometimes get cheese danishes or cinnamon rolls and when you look at the ingredient list... horror! ;D Maybe the Whole Foods stuff is slightly better. Will look into it.
This past Saturday, on Carb Nite, I started with 2 iced cinnamon rolls (not very fatty, more carby), and ate an entire pack of Whole Foods' raspberry filled 'streudel cookies' (this new thing they released). I try to keep the first CN meal more carby, less fatty.
I must be getting the wrong stuff. For example, last night I bought Cheese Danish Twist. The whole thing had 80g of fat and included all the evil stuff possible. From high fructose corn syrup to soy flower to artificial stuff.
About three hours later, I had Thai takeout (Pad Thai, veggie pancakes and Thai Iced Tea). On top of this, I had two donuts (Whole Foods).
I have no problem eating tons of Thai food and donuts, haha... my favorites right here!
I was so stuffed by my final meal, I just had 3 scoops of whey w/ the last few bites of take out I couldn't finish earlier. I felt like puking.I woke up this morning, and I feel like I am having a food hang-over. This is not uncommon after an all-out gorge fest. Throbbing headache, etc.
This is what I mean. I know we all wanna be ripped, but this just doesn't sound like a sustainable long term plan. Or does it? Can you eat like this for years without any health issues?
Having free food from my job is great, b/c I live in NYC, which = broke as hell after rent._________________________Ease yourself into it. Gorge at your own pace. Enjoy it. You could get some extra calories by downing protein shakes, at night, with high levels of dextrose. Maybe try milk shakes? Liquid calories are easier to get down than solid.As for Whole Foods. You need not worry about ingredients. They swear by natural, and even organic (where listed). Their iced cinnamon buns are brilliant!!! They are pricey, but they are huge. Ea. bun, from the bakery case, runs $2.49 in NYC._________________________You clearly aren't buying from Whole Foods if you find HFCS, "artificial" or "trans fat" in the ingredients. Either make the stuff yourself, as Keifer recommends, or buy from wholesome stores like Whole Foods (which I recommend, very convenient... baking yourself = not so convenient).Stay away from that processed crap._________________________I have read of someone getting bloodwork done, on these forums, and coming back with healthy cholesterol levels (if you search, you may find the post). Apparently, diabetes isn't possible, either, due to the timing of the carb splurges.I believe, from what I've seen / read, this diet is highly maintainable. I am no doctor, of course. CNS, however, can only be run for 6 months, then you need to take a month break. According to the book. Has something to do with stagnation in results, or something.If you eat like $h!t all day, every day, of course you will have health problems. Rightfully, I should've been obese thanks to my CBL month, I gain fat that easily... it is a testament to this diet, that someone like me could eat like that, and not gain an ounce of fat!Cory
You could get some extra calories by downing protein shakes, at night, with high levels of dextrose. Maybe try milk shakes? Liquid calories are easier to get down than solid.
That's a great idea, didn't thin about that. I only add dextrose to my pwo shake, but I could do the same later in the day as well. And it would be very low in fat, too.
As for Whole Foods. You need not worry about ingredients. They swear by natural, and even organic (where listed). Their iced cinnamon buns are brilliant!!! They are pricey, but they are huge. Ea. bun, from the bakery case, runs $2.49 in NYC.
I couldn't find them today (Columbus Circle Whole Foods). Which store do you get them at? Are they in their bakery section or are they packaged? They sound so delicious, I wanna try them!!!! ;D_________________________
You clearly aren't buying from Whole Foods if you find HFCS, "artificial" or "trans fat" in the ingredients. Either make the stuff yourself, as Keifer recommends, or buy from wholesome stores like Whole Foods (which I recommend, very convenient... baking yourself = not so convenient).Stay away from that processed crap.
Yeah, this was not from Whole Foods.
You could get some extra calories by downing protein shakes, at night, with high levels of dextrose. Maybe try milk shakes? Liquid calories are easier to get down than solid.
That's a great idea, didn't thin about that. I only add dextrose to my pwo shake, but I could do the same later in the day as well. And it would be very low in fat, too.
As for Whole Foods. You need not worry about ingredients. They swear by natural, and even organic (where listed). Their iced cinnamon buns are brilliant!!! They are pricey, but they are huge. Ea. bun, from the bakery case, runs $2.49 in NYC.
I couldn't find them today (Columbus Circle Whole Foods). Which store do you get them at? Are they in their bakery section or are they packaged? They sound so delicious, I wanna try them!!!! ;D_________________________
You clearly aren't buying from Whole Foods if you find HFCS, "artificial" or "trans fat" in the ingredients. Either make the stuff yourself, as Keifer recommends, or buy from wholesome stores like Whole Foods (which I recommend, very convenient... baking yourself = not so convenient).Stay away from that processed crap.
Yeah, this was not from Whole Foods.
You're a NY'er? Small world.Anyhow. I buy the cinnamon rolls at the Cheslea location. I tend to shop at the Chelsea location, b/c is a hop down from my gym, and right around the corner from the "E" train (which I take home, right after).I live closer to the Columbus Circle location, but it is TOO crowded (much like the Union Sq. location). 96th St. & Columbus Ave. is a good one, but I don't live up there anymore. Luckily, they are opening a HUGE one on E. 57th (btw. 2nd and 3rd), this Summer. That will be my new spot, b/c I live right around the corner.The cinnamon rolls aren't there all the time, and were not there this past Monday, but I have seen them in stock, from time to time. They are in the glass bakery display (with the scones, donuts, cookies, muffins, etc.).I bought them this past Saturday, when they were in stock, in Chelsea.Cory
Hahaha, you're a Whole Foods expert. I used to go to Chelsea when I was at Penn Station every day, but now 59th is more convenient. I'm uptown on the A, B, C, D line.I found out that their baked stuff actually varies from store to store. Union Square is good, but you're right.. so crowded. Let's see what the new one brings to the table ;DMight have to make the trip down to Chelsea to hunt these elusive cinnamon rolls down!!!
Yeah, now that I think about it, I don't believe I've seen those particular cinnamon rolls anywhere else… except ONCE at the 96th location — few years ago (like 2009 or 2010).You're right, the baked goods do vary from store to store. For instance, the icing in the Chelsea store is better than the icing used at the Columbus store (more 'buttercreamy'). But, the icing at the Union Sq. store is the BEST. Union Sq. also does icing sandwich cookies, which I don't often see in the other locations (which mostly stock regular whoopie pies).I love whoopie pies, but I am far more partial to chocolate chip cookie icing sandwiches.Cory
Oh man, I'm seriously lacking in the sweets department. Whoopie pies? Next on my list ;DLet me ask you this. Obviously, you have been at CNS/CBL for a while and you have seen results.I know that the general advice here is "go dirty" on your backloads. Sometimes it's like a competition in who eats the crappiest food. At the same time, whenever someone posts they are getting no results, they are told "go cleaner". So, it really depends on each individual case. In your experience, what was the cleanest you were able to go while still seeing results? If fries, donuts and pizza were on one side of the spectrum.... have you ever backloaded with rice and sweet potatoes only? Did it work? If not, what do you find is the optimal combination?Maybe sweet potato, rice.. and ice cream or a couple of scones with almond milk? Thanks...
Oh man, I'm seriously lacking in the sweets department. Whoopie pies? Next on my list ;DLet me ask you this. Obviously, you have been at CNS/CBL for a while and you have seen results.I know that the general advice here is "go dirty" on your backloads. Sometimes it's like a competition in who eats the crappiest food. At the same time, whenever someone posts they are getting no results, they are told "go cleaner". So, it really depends on each individual case. In your experience, what was the cleanest you were able to go while still seeing results? If fries, donuts and pizza were on one side of the spectrum.... have you ever backloaded with rice and sweet potatoes only? Did it work? If not, what do you find is the optimal combination?Maybe sweet potato, rice.. and ice cream or a couple of scones with almond milk? Thanks...
I've never backloaded or CN'd clean. I eat "dirty", b/c that is what is recommended for results. I get results! 🙂Like I've said: my first meal of the night is higher carb, lower fat. I might down angelfood cake, pound cake, or candies -- along with solid protein source(s).The rest of the meals are open game. Cakes, cookies, pies, donuts... all 100% pure $h1tty food. I just stick to natural, sometimes organic... i.e., Whole Foods Market, b/c I hate cooking and baking, myself.I also tend to throw in ONE restaurant meal, in place of one of my scheduled meals. This is usually take-out: Thai, Indian, diner fare, Mexican, etc.The point is to get a f--kton of fast carbs down... not the slow, complex carbs like sweet potatoes or pasta. $h1tty, fast carbs. It is easier to get that amount of carbs down with $h1tty food, than with white potatoes, white rice, white bagels, white bread, yellow corn, etc. That is why it is recommended to gorge like a pig on $h1t foods.If you are just getting started, and find it hard to down that much solid, $h1t food... try drinking liquid "crap", like milk shakes or whey shakes laden with dextrose. That sort of thing.Cory
Like I've said: my first meal of the night is higher carb, lower fat. I might down angelfood cake, pound cake, or candies — along with solid protein source(s).
Seems like pound cake has way more fat than angel food cake (I'll try to get one today). Solid protein source would be eggs? Whey? Cottage cheese?
The rest of the meals are open game. Cakes, cookies, pies, donuts... all 100% pure $h1tty food. I just stick to natural, sometimes organic... i.e., Whole Foods Market, b/c I hate cooking and baking, myself.
Got it! The cheese danish twist I got was from Food Town and the ingredients were just scary. Whole Foods it is!
I also tend to throw in ONE restaurant meal, in place of one of my scheduled meals. This is usually take-out: Thai, Indian, diner fare, Mexican, etc.
The only reason I asked about clean foods is because I'm on a budget right now and I'm trying to figure out the cheapest possible way. All this stuff adds up.
The point is to get a f--kton of fast carbs down... not the slow, complex carbs like sweet potatoes or pasta. $h1tty, fast carbs. It is easier to get that amount of carbs down with $h1tty food, than with white potatoes, white rice, white bagels, white bread, yellow corn, etc. That is why it is recommended to gorge like a pig on $h1t foods.
I actually like sweet potatoes and rice. And they are cheap. Maybe I can figure out a way to dirty them up, haha... mix them with ice cream, honey, maybe chocolate syrup? The cheap junk (Dunkin Donuts, etc) scares me ;D
If you are just getting started, and find it hard to down that much solid, $h1t food... try drinking liquid "crap", like milk shakes or whey shakes laden with dextrose. That sort of thing.
That is exactly my problem. Dextrose might be my savior for now. Whey + almond milk (or water) + dextrose.
Also, I think I remember reading that someone who actually worked with Kiefer would have burger and fries as their first meal during backload and ice cream later. So I figured potatoes were ok. Can't recall the name of the thread though..
Potatoes and rice around okay, just use other things as well.White should be white rices.Potatoes, sweet or white, are best cooked till super soft and whipped. Over baked sweet potatoes with some coconut oil and dextrose are amazing.
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