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Since we are also talking about psychology and stress while dieting, I thought I'd share a really great book on the subject. Many of you might have read it already, but I am in the middle and find it very helpful."Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" by Sapolsky, Robert
yea i have read that one good book:)oh also wanted to throw another thing in I forgot to write above.. yet another reason it's so hard to calculate is the huge fluctuations in water people have.. more so in women generally but at any given time you could go up or down 5 or so lbs in a day just due to water.. add that into everything else talked about shows just how hard it is to calculate what a proper healthy deficit is in people
Right on. Don't I know that well. ::)
This has been a really interesting thread, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.Personally, I do belief calories matter somewhat and that a deficit is needed, but the issue is how do you know what you are burning on a day to day bases? Being that are bodies aren't in a closed enviorment doing the same thing every day, we don't have the same hormonal reactions every day, there are so many things to consider that tracking calories for the sake of hitting a specific number seems quite pointless versus having a rough idea of your calories intake and eating based on how you feel/your progress.
I'm with Glitche, and Trevor. Calories have a role and we are able to eat more with a high fat diet because of hormonal changes and because fat use a metabolic pathway less efficient and witch requiere more energy.But that doesn't imply you have to count calories. It can help sometimes.
This has been a really interesting thread, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.Personally, I do belief calories matter somewhat and that a deficit is needed, but the issue is how do you know what you are burning on a day to day bases? Being that are bodies aren't in a closed enviorment doing the same thing every day, we don't have the same hormonal reactions every day, there are so many things to consider that tracking calories for the sake of hitting a specific number seems quite pointless versus having a rough idea of your calories intake and eating based on how you feel/your progress.
And a lot of times the progress is hard to track. Like mentioned above, it can be masked by so many things. IMHO in times like that one should just do what has been working for him/her for a period of time no matter what. Water weight is something I personally have to recognize on a monthly basis.
I sort of track what I eat, just enough to have a 300-500 calories swing either way depending on the say. I don't worry about being perfectly exact, just enough to allow me to adjust as needed.
I will agree somewhere there probably does need to be some kind of deficit.. but how to find that out is not as easy as just plugging numbers into a forumla or starving yourself...
I like what Sano said in his first reply .. ^^^It's just I don't believe that a caloric deficit is really what's required. It can work, but isn't the only way. I think the deficit that is most effective is a deficit of storage material for adipose tissue. And we, on the AIO protocols, employ this, by signalling MTR, using things like leucine to signal the mTOR pathway, timing our insulin spikes, all in order to create a deficit of material that is able to be stored as fat.I'm sure we've all seen people who have been able to recomp eating at either "maintenance" or a "surplus" simply because they're diverting that storage material away from adipose tissue. And recomping is a form of losing fat, despite the scale staying the same/going up.
I think the deficit that is most effective is a deficit of storage material for adipose tissue.
Thank you!
My problem with the concept of calorie deficit is that people often use it over an integral period. Now what is the length of the integral period that is most useful? A day? A couple days? A week? The entire diet period?I do not think a daily caloric deficit is required if that is what you are asking. I do think you need to deficit for some period of time in order to lose fat though. For instance I think using Carb Backloading you can have a neutral caloric balance over a day's period and lose bodyfat. How is this possible? You are in a caloric deficit in the morning and a surplus post workout where your body will use that energy to build muscle mass. The result is a neutral energy balance for the whole day.What many people who are in the "calories in, calories out" camp fail to understand is that the body will often adjust metabolism to the energy intake.
My problem with the concept of calorie deficit is that people often use it over an integral period. Now what is the length of the integral period that is most useful? A day? A couple days? A week? The entire diet period?I do not think a daily caloric deficit is required if that is what you are asking. I do think you need to deficit for some period of time in order to lose fat though. For instance I think using Carb Backloading you can have a neutral caloric balance over a day's period and lose bodyfat. How is this possible? You are in a caloric deficit in the morning and a surplus post workout where your body will use that energy to build muscle mass. The result is a neutral energy balance for the whole day.What many people who are in the "calories in, calories out" camp fail to understand is that the body will often adjust metabolism to the energy intake.
one issue with the metabolism thing is it doesn't do it very fast generally.. many studies have shown people on fasts as long as 72h had no significant change in their overall metabolic rate.. so over the course of several weeks or longer you may have your metabolism start to down regulate like you see on heavily restricted caloric diets but it's not going to be instant which is also why people lose weight initially when calories are restricted then stall.. the main issue I have with calories in and calories out is assuming you can accurately calculate your expenditure outside living in a lab hooked up to machines constantly monitoring you.. people will say just use the scale and adjust accordingly yet fluids make such a huge portion of your weight just a shift here and there can mean the difference of 10lbs+ in some people depending on your weight and gender..
My problem with the concept of calorie deficit is that people often use it over an integral period. Now what is the length of the integral period that is most useful? A day? A couple days? A week? The entire diet period?I do not think a daily caloric deficit is required if that is what you are asking. I do think you need to deficit for some period of time in order to lose fat though. For instance I think using Carb Backloading you can have a neutral caloric balance over a day's period and lose bodyfat. How is this possible? You are in a caloric deficit in the morning and a surplus post workout where your body will use that energy to build muscle mass. The result is a neutral energy balance for the whole day.What many people who are in the "calories in, calories out" camp fail to understand is that the body will often adjust metabolism to the energy intake.
one issue with the metabolism thing is it doesn't do it very fast generally.. many studies have shown people on fasts as long as 72h had no significant change in their overall metabolic rate.. so over the course of several weeks or longer you may have your metabolism start to down regulate like you see on heavily restricted caloric diets but it's not going to be instant which is also why people lose weight initially when calories are restricted then stall.. the main issue I have with calories in and calories out is assuming you can accurately calculate your expenditure.. people will say just use the scale and adjust accordingly yet fluids make such a huge portion of your weight just a shift here and there can mean the difference of 10lbs+ in some people depending on your weight and gender..
That's not what I was referring to. I was referring more the thermogenic response from eating food. A lot of times excess energy from food will be burned off as heat. The inverse is also true.
Leigh Peele in this latest Evil Sugar Radio kinda expanding on the issue:http://www.evilsugarradio.com/episode-11-fat-loss-metabolism-with-leigh-peele/106/So, I guess the reason I lose fat on CNS is because Of my insulin issues. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Leigh Peele in this latest Evil Sugar Radio kinda expanding on the issue:http://www.evilsugarradio.com/episode-11-fat-loss-metabolism-with-leigh-peele/106/So, I guess the reason I lose fat on CNS is because Of my insulin issues. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
THat has a lot to do with it, but the calories I'm sure played a role as well.
If you haven't read Leigh's starve mode book READ IT. You do need a deficit, but she talks about refeeds. So like you do a 30% cut off your TDEE and then make sure in that 28 day period you hit 6 days where you eat at your maintenance TDEE. She says the route you choose whether it's low carb/high carb or moderate carb is up to you. Insulin resistant folk tend to do better in the lower carb route with your refeed being a bit higher in carbs. Seriously though she takes all the “mystery” out of fat loss!! You can tailor it to CNS too if you wish. You just do your deficit through the week on your LC days and then on CN you eat at your maintenance TDEE with higher carbs.
If you haven't read Leigh's starve mode book READ IT. You do need a deficit, but she talks about refeeds. So like you do a 30% cut off your TDEE and then make sure in that 28 day period you hit 6 days where you eat at your maintenance TDEE. She says the route you choose whether it's low carb/high carb or moderate carb is up to you. Insulin resistant folk tend to do better in the lower carb route with your refeed being a bit higher in carbs. Seriously though she takes all the "mystery" out of fat loss!! You can tailor it to CNS too if you wish. You just do your deficit through the week on your LC days and then on CN you eat at your maintenance TDEE with higher carbs.
Yep. I bought the book when it just came out. It's good. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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