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Is there a reason why you (and I'm guessing some others) avoid basic sugar? Did you try it and not get the results you wanted?
table sugar is about half fructose.. you want to avoid fructose best you can as it really does nothing for you and causes more harm than good in most cases.. this is why fruits should be very limited as well not to mention most table sugar is heavily processed with all sorts of chemicals
I fully disagree. Fructose is not the demon its made out to be. You can have simple sugars in your backloads and not encounter any problems at all.
fructose in high amounts is the real issue.. like drinking non-diet soda, sugar added fruit juices, and such all the time... and yes you can be fine eating simple sugars on backloads and get results but imho its not ideal for many reasons.. not just health but there are better options for insulin spikes.. i don't avoid all sucrose i just try to limit it
I dont even think those are necessarily true either. I think high fructose in the presence of an already high carb intake and topped off glycogen stores may present issues. But the way we use carbs in CBL and CNS would circumvent those scenarios. I know Kiefer doesnt recommend fruit or large amounts of fructose, but I have guinea pigged this on myself and encountered no body comp issues, and so far only positive health changes from having a large amount of simple sugars (easily 100g+ of fructose PWO) and now eating fruit pre-workout and on off days. I have actually lost weight while increasing carbs and attempting to gain weight! Now would the rules change if I was obese or formerly very overweight? Quite possibly.
it is true most issues with sugar stem from people already on high carb diets.. the main issue with fructose is how your body uses it.. i'm sure most people doing CBL could get fine results with high sucrose and lots of fruit but imho there are better ways.. Fructose can only be metabolized by your liver as opposed to glucose which can be utilized almost everywhere in your body.. so in turn you are hindering yourself by doing backloads with heavy amounts of fructose.. but to each their own i suppose
How so? I give you the platform. What ill's am I doing with high fructose that I would not be doing with high glucose? And if you are talking purely body comp I can tell you now that it makes virtually no difference for me whether I get the majority of my carbs from "clean" sources of from "dirty" ones. Any body comp change is usually down to calories rather than carb sources for me. Just so happens I can get more calories with Pizza than I can with Rice!
How so? I give you the platform. What ill's am I doing with high fructose that I would not be doing with high glucose? And if you are talking purely body comp I can tell you now that it makes virtually no difference for me whether I get the majority of my carbs from “clean” sources of from “dirty” ones. Any body comp change is usually down to calories rather than carb sources for me. Just so happens I can get more calories with Pizza than I can with Rice!the only way to truly answer that is test it out yourself.. but would take a long time to make a good comparison.. i'm going by the science and what the research i have read says and shows.. again if you are getting fine results doing what you are doing who am i to tell you any different
Is there a reason why you (and I'm guessing some others) avoid basic sugar? Did you try it and not get the results you wanted?
table sugar is about half fructose.. you want to avoid fructose best you can as it really does nothing for you and causes more harm than good in most cases.. this is why fruits should be very limited as well not to mention most table sugar is heavily processed with all sorts of chemicals
I fully disagree. Fructose is not the demon its made out to be. You can have simple sugars in your backloads and not encounter any problems at all.
fructose in high amounts is the real issue.. like drinking non-diet soda, sugar added fruit juices, and such all the time... and yes you can be fine eating simple sugars on backloads and get results but imho its not ideal for many reasons.. not just health but there are better options for insulin spikes.. i don't avoid all sucrose i just try to limit it
I dont even think those are necessarily true either. I think high fructose in the presence of an already high carb intake and topped off glycogen stores may present issues. But the way we use carbs in CBL and CNS would circumvent those scenarios. I know Kiefer doesnt recommend fruit or large amounts of fructose, but I have guinea pigged this on myself and encountered no body comp issues, and so far only positive health changes from having a large amount of simple sugars (easily 100g+ of fructose PWO) and now eating fruit pre-workout and on off days. I have actually lost weight while increasing carbs and attempting to gain weight! Now would the rules change if I was obese or formerly very overweight? Quite possibly.
it is true most issues with sugar stem from people already on high carb diets.. the main issue with fructose is how your body uses it.. i'm sure most people doing CBL could get fine results with high sucrose and lots of fruit but imho there are better ways.. Fructose can only be metabolized by your liver as opposed to glucose which can be utilized almost everywhere in your body.. so in turn you are hindering yourself by doing backloads with heavy amounts of fructose.. but to each their own i suppose
How so? I give you the platform. What ill's am I doing with high fructose that I would not be doing with high glucose? And if you are talking purely body comp I can tell you now that it makes virtually no difference for me whether I get the majority of my carbs from "clean" sources of from "dirty" ones. Any body comp change is usually down to calories rather than carb sources for me. Just so happens I can get more calories with Pizza than I can with Rice!
Kiefer said that in his experience with clients, some people simply aren't affected by fructose while others really put on fat when they consume a lot of it.Fructose isn't really a huge deal with me either, but I have noticed that since I cleaned up my diet I had an easier time leaning out. I am not sure if that is due to fructose or not, but I would suspect that had something to do with it.
I think fructose is probably in same bracket as wheat/gluten. Some people will see better results without it, while for others they can get away with it. Trial and error, as with most things!
READ THE BOOK. Sugary food is recommended for best results, but there are rules that apply. Clean carbs will not get you the best results. Listen to Kiefer the author not people who take carb backloading, and change it according to what they believe is right. The whole thing about carb backloading is that it changes the rules of eating as we know it. Clean carbs are out for the most part, dirty sugar laden food is in, but there are rules so read the book and it will make sense.
one of the main points is the insulin spike as stated in the book.. sucrose GI is only around 65 hence not ideal for insulin spikes.. starches or dextrose have higher GIs and greater effect on insulinthink about it if he suggested just starches and dextrose how many would listen and follow? he says donuts and cake then of course everyone jumps on board.. those things will work fine but not ideal for insulin spikes
I agree, I'm on CN and I was eating very clean carbs for the first month. I had went nuts one night, ate a half a box of Cookie crisp, brownies, cake and some other sugary sweet treats. I felt amazing the next morning and lost a good amount of fat over the following few days. So now I just make sure to have rice crispy treats and a desert like cake or donuts, the rest is rice, bread and pasta. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
READ THE BOOK. Sugary food is recommended for best results, but there are rules that apply. Clean carbs will not get you the best results. Listen to Kiefer the author not people who take carb backloading, and change it according to what they believe is right. The whole thing about carb backloading is that it changes the rules of eating as we know it. Clean carbs are out for the most part, dirty sugar laden food is in, but there are rules so read the book and it will make sense.
one of the main points is the insulin spike as stated in the book.. sucrose GI is only around 65 hence not ideal for insulin spikes.. starches or dextrose have higher GIs and greater effect on insulinthink about it if he suggested just starches and dextrose how many would listen and follow? he says donuts and cake then of course everyone jumps on board.. those things will work fine but not ideal for insulin spikes
I agree, I'm on CN and I was eating very clean carbs for the first month. I had went nuts one night, ate a half a box of Cookie crisp, brownies, cake and some other sugary sweet treats. I felt amazing the next morning and lost a good amount of fat over the following few days. So now I just make sure to have rice crispy treats and a desert like cake or donuts, the rest is rice, bread and pasta.
Good observation Jerem. Im filing this away under sugar/thyroid boosting/fat burning
I think fructose is probably in same bracket as wheat/gluten. Some people will see better results without it, while for others they can get away with it. Trial and error, as with most things!
This is what Kiefer says. For whatever reason, I am really sensitive to fructose. I get much better results (as far as fat loss goes) with my backloads if I minimize it. I am currently density bulking now, so I don't really watch it, but when I run strength accumulation I eat three ripe bananas and that's pretty much all the fructose I get. I think it just comes down to the fact that fructose can't be used to restore muscle glycogen.
I think fructose is probably in same bracket as wheat/gluten. Some people will see better results without it, while for others they can get away with it. Trial and error, as with most things!
This is what Kiefer says. For whatever reason, I am really sensitive to fructose. I get much better results (as far as fat loss goes) with my backloads if I minimize it. I am currently density bulking now, so I don't really watch it, but when I run strength accumulation I eat three ripe bananas and that's pretty much all the fructose I get. I think it just comes down to the fact that fructose can't be used to restore muscle glycogen.
If you think about it this should be useful for fatloss. If your muscle glycogen is never topped up as much the muscle is going to burn more fat during training and at rest. The repletion of liver glycogen is going to help thyroid stay highly active and prevent too much stress on the metabolism.
I think fructose is probably in same bracket as wheat/gluten. Some people will see better results without it, while for others they can get away with it. Trial and error, as with most things!
This is what Kiefer says. For whatever reason, I am really sensitive to fructose. I get much better results (as far as fat loss goes) with my backloads if I minimize it. I am currently density bulking now, so I don't really watch it, but when I run strength accumulation I eat three ripe bananas and that's pretty much all the fructose I get. I think it just comes down to the fact that fructose can't be used to restore muscle glycogen.
+1 experimenting with variety of foods is best option imho.. some do way better with starches others will do better with sugars no reason to not try each to see what you respond better to.. in the theory of CBL starches should be ideal for its written purpose as far as putting on muscle although it may not be the best in terms of overall health in the long run.. but who knows really.. there hasn't been any real long terms studies on this when it comes to weight lifters
I think fructose is probably in same bracket as wheat/gluten. Some people will see better results without it, while for others they can get away with it. Trial and error, as with most things!
This is what Kiefer says. For whatever reason, I am really sensitive to fructose. I get much better results (as far as fat loss goes) with my backloads if I minimize it. I am currently density bulking now, so I don't really watch it, but when I run strength accumulation I eat three ripe bananas and that's pretty much all the fructose I get. I think it just comes down to the fact that fructose can't be used to restore muscle glycogen.
If you think about it this should be useful for fatloss. If your muscle glycogen is never topped up as much the muscle is going to burn more fat during training and at rest. The repletion of liver glycogen is going to help thyroid stay highly active and prevent too much stress on the metabolism.
Fructose is useful for liver glyocgen replenishment, but glucose also restores liver glycogen. As I'm sure you know, if liver glycogen is full, fructose is used for triglyceride synthesis.Fructose could possibly be useful when you are low carb to restore liver glycogen, but I think it if you are consuming a lot of it with a lot of glucose, it could cause trouble.
I think fructose is probably in same bracket as wheat/gluten. Some people will see better results without it, while for others they can get away with it. Trial and error, as with most things!
This is what Kiefer says. For whatever reason, I am really sensitive to fructose. I get much better results (as far as fat loss goes) with my backloads if I minimize it. I am currently density bulking now, so I don't really watch it, but when I run strength accumulation I eat three ripe bananas and that's pretty much all the fructose I get. I think it just comes down to the fact that fructose can't be used to restore muscle glycogen.
If you think about it this should be useful for fatloss. If your muscle glycogen is never topped up as much the muscle is going to burn more fat during training and at rest. The repletion of liver glycogen is going to help thyroid stay highly active and prevent too much stress on the metabolism.
Fructose is useful for liver glyocgen replenishment, but glucose also restores liver glycogen. As I'm sure you know, if liver glycogen is full, fructose is used for triglyceride synthesis.Fructose could possibly be useful when you are low carb to restore liver glycogen, but I think it if you are consuming a lot of it with a lot of glucose, it could cause trouble.
+1 The big harm is not only the fact that it is used for triglyceride storage, but it turns on the process of triglyceride storage during a time that we are trying to optimize the fact that its being suppressed. So it opens up glycogen to being stored much easier as fat as well.
This is what Kiefer says. For whatever reason, I am really sensitive to fructose. I get much better results (as far as fat loss goes) with my backloads if I minimize it. I am currently density bulking now, so I don't really watch it, but when I run strength accumulation I eat three ripe bananas and that's pretty much all the fructose I get. I think it just comes down to the fact that fructose can't be used to restore muscle glycogen.
If you think about it this should be useful for fatloss. If your muscle glycogen is never topped up as much the muscle is going to burn more fat during training and at rest. The repletion of liver glycogen is going to help thyroid stay highly active and prevent too much stress on the metabolism.
Fructose is useful for liver glyocgen replenishment, but glucose also restores liver glycogen. As I'm sure you know, if liver glycogen is full, fructose is used for triglyceride synthesis.Fructose could possibly be useful when you are low carb to restore liver glycogen, but I think it if you are consuming a lot of it with a lot of glucose, it could cause trouble.
Im not sure I know anyone here who is getting much more than 100-150g fructose in an evening (the rough avg of liver glycogen stores). Even myself when I have a big backload I might get about that. So thats my liver pretty much taken care off. Everything else is muscle glycogen and some triglycerides which should be burned off fairly easily.
+1 The big harm is not only the fact that it is used for triglyceride storage, but it turns on the process of triglyceride storage during a time that we are trying to optimize the fact that its being suppressed. So it opens up glycogen to being stored much easier as fat as well.
Creating triglycerides and storing them are two different things. If you are talking about "storage" you mean insulin for the most part. Fructose has very little effect on insulin. In fact it helps lower the insulin response when combined with glucose. So using physiologically known facts you cant say it causes triglyceride storage. It may create triglycerides but if they are burned off before they are stored its a moot point. The body is still burning fats after training and for a period of days after. Not to mention that muscle at rest burns fat predominantly.
this explains why for health purposes sugars may be better(in moderation) than starches but for the purposes of CBL i don't see how sugars would be ideal
This is what Kiefer says. For whatever reason, I am really sensitive to fructose. I get much better results (as far as fat loss goes) with my backloads if I minimize it. I am currently density bulking now, so I don't really watch it, but when I run strength accumulation I eat three ripe bananas and that's pretty much all the fructose I get. I think it just comes down to the fact that fructose can't be used to restore muscle glycogen.
If you think about it this should be useful for fatloss. If your muscle glycogen is never topped up as much the muscle is going to burn more fat during training and at rest. The repletion of liver glycogen is going to help thyroid stay highly active and prevent too much stress on the metabolism.
Fructose is useful for liver glyocgen replenishment, but glucose also restores liver glycogen. As I'm sure you know, if liver glycogen is full, fructose is used for triglyceride synthesis.Fructose could possibly be useful when you are low carb to restore liver glycogen, but I think it if you are consuming a lot of it with a lot of glucose, it could cause trouble.
Im not sure I know anyone here who is getting much more than 100-150g fructose in an evening (the rough avg of liver glycogen stores). Even myself when I have a big backload I might get about that. So thats my liver pretty much taken care off. Everything else is muscle glycogen and some triglycerides which should be burned off fairly easily.
+1 The big harm is not only the fact that it is used for triglyceride storage, but it turns on the process of triglyceride storage during a time that we are trying to optimize the fact that its being suppressed. So it opens up glycogen to being stored much easier as fat as well.
Creating triglycerides and storing them are two different things. If you are talking about "storage" you mean insulin for the most part. Fructose has very little effect on insulin. In fact it helps lower the insulin response when combined with glucose. So using physiologically known facts you cant say it causes triglyceride storage. It may create triglycerides but if they are burned off before they are stored its a moot point. The body is still burning fats after training and for a period of days after. Not to mention that muscle at rest burns fat predominantly.
Glucose (and galactose if you drink milk) can be and is used to restore liver glycogen as well. So you must take that into account when using liver glycogen as the amount of fructose you want to limit. While I am not familiar about this, something tells me that there is a good chance that the triglycerides formed from fructose will be stored due to high insulin and blood sugar levels and the high energy surplus that occur while backloading.
Glucose (and galactose if you drink milk) can be and is used to restore liver glycogen as well. So you must take that into account when using liver glycogen as the amount of fructose you want to limit. While I am not familiar about this, something tells me that there is a good chance that the triglycerides formed from fructose will be stored due to high insulin and blood sugar levels and the high energy surplus that occur while backloading.
which is why id be weary about loading up on fructose while doing CBL as many times people consume more than enough required to fill both liver and muscle glycogen.. sure some could burn right through it but others may not be as fortunate
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