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I am a very fat woman who bought the book a year ago. Imagine my chagrin to peruse the forums to find out the information in my $30 book is "outdated". I would have very much preferred to know at the outset that I was purchasing outdated information or information that is "under review" and that a new edition is coming out soon. I would have appreciated knowing, from the beginning, that as a fat woman, I COULD go more than 7 days without a carb nite without "destroying my thyroid". But, what's done is done.I was going to post today about how long I should push out my carb window. I have read on this thread alone two different "absolutes": 14 days and 10 days.As someone who (I think) falls into the category of the "metabolically deranged" (a term which did NOT appear in the book I read), I am guessing I am "safe" to go with a 14 day window.But, I am not sure...????
Carb nite worked ten years ago as it was written, and the same material will get you results today. The finer points of fatty acid profiles, macro ratios and refeed schedules are gravy for people who want to dive in deep for "that extra two percent of results," as Kiefer once put it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly. The book isn't "outdated" it simply just isn't cutting edge.
There are still some things that the book is just blatantly wrong on calories being on of them. He flat out says you should never have to count calories ever but from every thing I am seeing from people on the forum you can flat out over eat even on CNS!! 🙁 Trust me when I tell you it is a huge hook for people to try CNS to no count calories!
There are still some things that the book is just blatantly wrong on calories being on of them. He flat out says you should never have to count calories ever but from every thing I am seeing from people on the forum you can flat out over eat even on CNS!! 🙁 Trust me when I tell you it is a huge hook for people to try CNS to no count calories!
It's my opinion (no more no less) that people who come to CNS after being on a standard Western diet their whole lives don't need to count a thing. The sudden reliance on fat and protein gets them full much more quickly.I put a friend of mine on CNS a little over a year ago. He gave himself 6 weeks to lose 20 pounds. He ate his freaking face off with cheese omelets and bunless burgers, ate Cracker Barrel and muffins on his carb nites, and lost more than 20 pounds in 4 weeks. He drifted off CNS after the holidays and had a pretty sharp rebound in weight, but the point nonetheless stuck out to me that he experienced an incredible weight loss in a short amount of time on his first cycle.Contrast that with my own experience. I had been low-carb and low-cal for a long time before trying CNS. It was much harder for me to kickstart good fat loss because my body was already a) used to being low-carb and b) a little metabolically screwed up from accidental under-eating when I went paleo. I saw the most success from dropping my protein intake and increasing my fat intake, something Kiefer himself recommended 2 years ago.There's also the mistaken notion that if you're low carb, you can eat all the fat and protein you want. Wrong. No matter what that dweeb Sam Feltham might purport, if you eat too much, you'll stall out. Getting in touch with hunger signals, not using ULC days as an excuse to consume bacon by the pound and not using carb nites as an excuse to clean out the corner bakery is just common sense.
It's my opinion (no more no less) that people who come to CNS after being on a standard Western diet their whole lives don't need to count a thing. The sudden reliance on fat and protein gets them full much more quickly.I put a friend of mine on CNS a little over a year ago. He gave himself 6 weeks to lose 20 pounds. He ate his freaking face off with cheese omelets and bunless burgers, ate Cracker Barrel and muffins on his carb nites, and lost more than 20 pounds in 4 weeks. He drifted off CNS after the holidays and had a pretty sharp rebound in weight, but the point nonetheless stuck out to me that he experienced an incredible weight loss in a short amount of time on his first cycle.Contrast that with my own experience. I had been low-carb and low-cal for a long time before trying CNS. It was much harder for me to kickstart good fat loss because my body was already a) used to being low-carb and b) a little metabolically screwed up from accidental under-eating when I went paleo. I saw the most success from dropping my protein intake and increasing my fat intake, something Kiefer himself recommended 2 years ago.There's also the mistaken notion that if you're low carb, you can eat all the fat and protein you want. Wrong. No matter what that dweeb Sam Feltham might purport, if you eat too much, you'll stall out. Getting in touch with hunger signals, not using ULC days as an excuse to consume bacon by the pound and not using carb nites as an excuse to clean out the corner bakery is just common sense.
I do not own the book, nor do i know what kiefer recommends. But I know low carb dieting and I know it works. Personally I tried to never go above 30g(not the right number for everyone) of usable carbs per day. In actuality I always avoided anything I thought "if i'm not careful I could eat too much carbs" things like green peas, or tortillas, peanut butter, etc. (anything where one serving might be okay, but not 2 or 3)from a macro percentile, if the goal here is 65% fat 30% protein and 5% carbs and say you lose weight at 1200 caloriesThats:780 Calories from fat (87g)360 Calories from Protein (90g)<60 Calories from Carbs (<15g)15g of usable carbs are not a lot, and they can sneak up on you. if you said you've been on a low calorie diet for a long time, might consider trying to create a set point...there are alternatives out there... stalling weight loss should not be acceptable.
There are still some things that the book is just blatantly wrong on calories being on of them. He flat out says you should never have to count calories ever but from every thing I am seeing from people on the forum you can flat out over eat even on CNS!! 🙁 Trust me when I tell you it is a huge hook for people to try CNS to no count calories!
Correct, Sake, all the way around.I did CN for two years. I also believed that if I avoided the "evil" carb for 6.5 days of the week, that I didn't have to count calories. Wow was I wrong; wow did I waste many months during that two year period in which zero fat loss occurred. Meanwhile, I decided to reintroduce a hefty portion of carbs into my daily eating while counting calories to ensure a caloric deficit, and boom! I haven't stopped dropping bodyfat yet in the three months since I made the switch.And I completely disagree with some of the comments being made about "as long as you avoid carbs then calorie counting isn't necessary". Scott Abel makes the excellent comparison of eating a portion of almonds/nuts versus an apple. Nuts are like four times higher in calories than apples! In addition, did we suddenly forget that a gram of fat contains more than double the amount of calories than carbs?? Also, if you eat at or even slightly above the amount of food needed for your body you WON'T lose any bodyfat, even if it's made of 100% protein and fat.
There are still some things that the book is just blatantly wrong on calories being on of them. He flat out says you should never have to count calories ever but from every thing I am seeing from people on the forum you can flat out over eat even on CNS!! 🙁 Trust me when I tell you it is a huge hook for people to try CNS to no count calories!
Correct, Sake, all the way around.I did CN for two years. I also believed that if I avoided the "evil" carb for 6.5 days of the week, that I didn't have to count calories. Wow was I wrong; wow did I waste many months during that two year period in which zero fat loss occurred. Meanwhile, I decided to reintroduce a hefty portion of carbs into my daily eating while counting calories to ensure a caloric deficit, and boom! I haven't stopped dropping bodyfat yet in the three months since I made the switch.And I completely disagree with some of the comments being made about "as long as you avoid carbs then calorie counting isn't necessary". Scott Abel makes the excellent comparison of eating a portion of almonds/nuts versus an apple. Nuts are like four times higher in calories than apples! In addition, did we suddenly forget that a gram of fat contains more than double the amount of calories than carbs?? Also, if you eat at or even slightly above the amount of food needed for your body you WON'T lose any bodyfat, even if it's made of 100% protein and fat.
You don't have to count calories on Carb Nite. I never did and it always worked for me. My sister, who never dieted in here whole life, also lost 25 lbs on Carb Nite without counting calories. If you need to count calories to prevent yourself from overeating, that's on you, not the diet. Just because the book says you don't have to count calories, doesn't mean you can eat as much as you want.As far as your experience with adding carbs in, there are many ways of skinning a cat. I'm glad you found a way to get results. I lost weight on a regular diet where I counted calories and included all three macros. That works too.
There are still some things that the book is just blatantly wrong on calories being on of them. He flat out says you should never have to count calories ever but from every thing I am seeing from people on the forum you can flat out over eat even on CNS!! 🙁 Trust me when I tell you it is a huge hook for people to try CNS to no count calories!
You have to remember the diet is basically designed for people who are sedentary, overweight, and metabolically broken. Those people don't have to count a thing, because the principles of the diet itself will serve to help them greatly.But as with anything, when you get closer to goals, your focus has to become more precise and specialized. Just like in lifting weights or something, someone newer to it can do just about anything and see results, while the guy who has been training for 20 years may have to focus specifically on one small body part. In the case of this diet, this could be equated to counting calories/macros, or for some, just food choices.
For the longest time being on this forum, my frustration doesn't lie in how Keifer comes up with something new to say, my frustration kinda stemmed from being on this forum when there's people passing his information as this inflexible golden info that shouldn't be changed for anyone.. and that if it's not working for you.. then there's something wrong with you. Don't get me wrong, this forum is an excellent source of info, and there's a lot of guys who know what they are talking about, but sometimes we get comments saying how we shouldn't do this and that because that's what Keifer says.. and not questioning the reasons behind it.But now I found out the frustration didn't lie in how the information is given to me, I realized it was my own problem that I viewed it as a written in stone kind of thing and it's very easy for anyone to get into that mindset; since many people come on here with success stories, that I personally used as a statistic to further engrave the material in stone. No one said it was the end all be all info.. and no one said I couldn't experiment with how I wanted to work with the diet.I've tried the 6 days ultra low carb, and it only worked in the beginning, it didn't get any better. I shortened the ULC days, did 4 days hoping that if i did a semi carb backload as I'm lifting weights that my body composition would change since there were info about how people lost weight doing CBL over CNS.I remember people saying you shouldn't have PWO shakes during ULC like a year ago.. but now we're saying it's okay if we skip out on carbs and use PWO as the carb replacement. I had argued that this could work, and it became acceptable.My friends and I were on carb nites, we are a group of 8 people, most of them muslims so they have some limitations on the diet, and only 6 of us saw awesome results, while 2 of us didn't. I'm one of the two, and the only one out of all of us that goes on these forums.So I further extended my carb nights to 2-3 weeks.. I did my PWO after workouts.. and I lost the most weight I ever did all year. Did it mean that whatever info keifer told me was wrong? Not really, since he gave the information as a guideline.If you want to argue about monetary value, well.. most of the stuff he talks about in the books are free anyways in his podcasts and around this website. It's like knowing the plot of the movie for free without actually paying a fee to watch it in a theatre.
6 of us saw awesome results, while 2 of us didn't. I'm one of the two, and the only one out of all of us that goes on these forums.So I further extended my carb nights to 2-3 weeks.. I did my PWO after workouts.. and I lost the most weight I ever did all year.
Can you elaborate on your weekly Carb Nite with no fat loss vs. extending it out, what changed, what was measured and gained or lost?I think many people here would like to extend it out, but may be nervous.
zero fat loss occurred. Meanwhile, I decided to reintroduce a hefty portion of carbs into my daily eating while counting calories to ensure a caloric deficit, and boom! I haven't stopped dropping bodyfat yet in the three months since I made the switch.
The goal or strength of Carb Nite or a CKD is the reduction of insulin and more importantly hunger. Strictly cutting calories and keep your macros higher in carbs "should" cause "weight" loss including MUSCLE loss. Are you sure your not also losing muscle?Carb Nite seems to sparing my lean mass, whereas as cutting calories did not. Being hungry on a calorie restricted diet is failure waiting to happen. Sugar/carbs make me very hungry, whereas I can miss a meal on CNS no problem.
Personally I tried to never go above 30g(not the right number for everyone) of usable carbs per day. In actuality I always avoided anything I thought "if i'm not careful I could eat too much carbs" things like green peas, or tortillas, peanut butter, etc. (anything where one serving might be okay, but not 2 or 3)from a macro percentile, if the goal here is 65% fat 30% protein and 5% carbs and say you lose weight at 1200 calories
I do not suggest doing 1200 calories as an adult male ever. That is too great a daily deficit.
6 of us saw awesome results, while 2 of us didn't. I'm one of the two, and the only one out of all of us that goes on these forums.So I further extended my carb nights to 2-3 weeks.. I did my PWO after workouts.. and I lost the most weight I ever did all year.
Can you elaborate on your weekly Carb Nite with no fat loss vs. extending it out, what changed, what was measured and gained or lost?I think many people here would like to extend it out, but may be nervous.
It wasn't a "no fat loss", it was a fat gain. You do know the hormones can get out of whack when you deprive of yourself of sugar over a long term period.. however.. from person to person.. that rate of hormones getting out of whack is different. I have a friend in Utah (I'm in NY), and I told him to try 2 weeks on ULC.. he had symptoms that I never experienced before.. like he saw himself dehydrated all the time (he had to drink way more water), he was constipated, bloatedness, insomnia, and he was losing just as much weight as he was doing it once a week. Some of my muslim friends also tried it, and they experienced the same symptoms.For me, I wasn't giving my body time to readjust by doing it once a week, and I didn't feel those symptoms at all.Mind you, over the year that I was doing carb nites once a week, I lost 10 pounds the first month.. and then I plateaued after that, but then I started gaining weight.. in fact I gained 25lbs on CNS over the course of 8 months. After extending my carb nite to 2-3 a week, I lost 20 lbs. I did this over a course of 3 months and my clothes started to fit again.There isn't any life threatening situations by extending it, just tons of uncomfortable feelings and irritableness. People should try it out and see if it works for them, and check out the results. If the results are the same as doing it once a week.. then they should keep doing CNS once a week. If they see better results by extending it, they should keep doing it until they aren't satisfied with the results.
zero fat loss occurred. Meanwhile, I decided to reintroduce a hefty portion of carbs into my daily eating while counting calories to ensure a caloric deficit, and boom! I haven't stopped dropping bodyfat yet in the three months since I made the switch.
The goal or strength of Carb Nite or a CKD is the reduction of insulin and more importantly hunger. Strictly cutting calories and keep your macros higher in carbs "should" cause "weight" loss including MUSCLE loss. Are you sure your not also losing muscle?Carb Nite seems to sparing my lean mass, whereas as cutting calories did not. Being hungry on a calorie restricted diet is failure waiting to happen. Sugar/carbs make me very hungry, whereas I can miss a meal on CNS no problem.
I did NOT lose muscle when I switched over to eating more carbs and on a daily basis. Why would I from just making that switch??? The only times I've lost muscle due to diet is when either a) I went too below my maintenance caloric levels via under eating, or b) severely over training.......regardless of what the macro composition was (yes, including a CN style of eating). My strength went UP as a matter of fact, in addition to not just preventing muscle loss, but having some muscle gain.As far as hunger goes, that's an entirely different topic and thread, and is different for everyone. Whether I'm on a CN type of diet or my current (daily and more carbs) way of eating, I am ALWAYS hungry, but I'm also a massive lover of food in general. (Thank goodness for coffee!!!) But, I repeat, hunger was no worse or better on either form of eating.And after years, I've finally learned just how unbelievably misunderstood the whole "avoid insulin spikes" theory is. Thank goodness I'm free of that.
I do not suggest doing 1200 calories as an adult male ever. That is too great a daily deficit.
I am pretty sure my comment was directed at a female, but its the internet and I have no idea who i was talking to.I would agree that 1200 is way to low for any male
I did NOT lose muscle when I switched over to eating more carbs and on a daily basis. Why would I from just making that switch???
The problem with Carbohydrate consumption is they trigger insulin (this should sound familiar for you if you read the book?)In the presence of insulin(above baseline levels) the body will not oxidize fat cells (lipolysis). Therefore if the body needs more calories then you are currently eating(if your blood sugar drops below baseline and insulin is still present in the blood aka exercise after eating), or being circulated in your blood as blood sugar, the body must produce that energy from a material other than fat cells. Thus protein is broken down to provide glucose the energy requirements of your activities. Doing this results in lower lean body weight and has a negative effect on your baseline metabolism.You should know this from reading the book
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