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Im about to begin this protocol to see if it helps with CNS Recovery and hopefully strength gains. In the first Jim Laird podcast Keifer listed the protocol asTyrosine: up to 3g depending on body weight (Im assuming muscular weight here)Taurine: 1.5gTryptophan: 0.5-1g a dayHe mentioned taking them however you feel during the day rather than a precise timed recommendation. However, after a little extra investigation I have decided to try taking them in this fashionTyrosine: 2g a day (to start, since Im not exactly a monster by any means) first thing in the morning.Taurine: 1.5g pre-workout only (unless someone can convince me its useful on off days as well in which case I will take this before my first meal or early afternoon)Tryptophan: 0.5g a day before bed. May bump up to 1g if I feel like it helps.My reasons for trying this: I dont take any stimulants (which is where the convo on Jim Laird's show sprouted from) beyond 2-3 cups of coffee a day, but I do feel like Im pretty wired, running on nerves all day at work and dont feel exactly rested or relaxed coming into train after work. Even though Im using CBL I find my strength isnt improving as much as it could/has in the past on other diets, and occassionally Ill have a day where Im only getting a single with a weight I did for 3-5 the weeks prior. Thoughts? Experiences? Have at it!
LOL. no opinions experiences? So far I cant say Im noticing any improvement with my lifts or recovery. And actually I feel like this stuff is messing with my moods. Yesterday I felt real edgy and like I was on a hair trigger. Polar opposite of relaxed really!
Well, the first two ingredients are not intended as 'mellowing agents'. They are more what you would find in 'pre-workout' formulas. The l-Tyrosine, for sure, will amp you up - it is an active ingredient for mental focus/energy drinks and is intended for increased mental acuity. Additionally (from the TrueNutrition product description): Taurine as well increases mental concentration and alertness and can improve your overall feeling of well being... Not too surprising as to your response to these two, then. Now, the tryptophan, yes, that should lead to deeper, better sleep as it metabolizes to 5-HTP. Take about an hour before bed.
Well, the first two ingredients are not intended as 'mellowing agents'. They are more what you would find in 'pre-workout' formulas. The l-Tyrosine, for sure, will amp you up - it is an active ingredient for mental focus/energy drinks and is intended for increased mental acuity. Additionally (from the TrueNutrition product description): Taurine as well increases mental concentration and alertness and can improve your overall feeling of well being... Not too surprising as to your response to these two, then. Now, the tryptophan, yes, that should lead to deeper, better sleep as it metabolizes to 5-HTP. Take about an hour before bed.
Thanks Marty.Im thinking of changing the order of these. Been reading a bit more and at first I thought I had to keep Taurine and Tyrosine seperate to stop them from competing for uptake. But it appears its only the Tryptophan that competes with Tyrosine. What im thinking is Tyrosine pre workout (or mornings on off days) and taurine post with Tryptophan before bed. Dont know what it is about Taurine but its like I cant even be bothered lifting after taking it!
I've read about taurine being used to increase force production but use to sleep better. According to Charles Poliquin, it really calms the nervous system (through gaba activation and cortisol reduction) and stacks well with magnesium to improve the quality of sleep.
I've read about taurine being used to increase force production but use to sleep better. According to Charles Poliquin, it really calms the nervous system (through gaba activation and cortisol reduction) and stacks well with magnesium to improve the quality of sleep.
Yeah. Im hoping that putting it post workout helps me wind down. Seems that I was misguided into believing it was appropriate pre workout. Damn you redbull!
I know what you mean and I wonder if some of the energy drinks dont add it to prevent stimulant jitters vs. another stimulant. Then again, it could be just one of those things where you just react differently to it.For example - tryptophan does absolutely nothing for me but a taurine, theanine, 5htp and magnesium cocktail knocks me out.Also, I dont use any stims other than half a caffeine cap before working out but I start every morning with an acetyl carnitine/acetyl tyrosine combo. If I take that combo in the afternoon, it will mess with my sleep.
I know what you mean and I wonder if some of the energy drinks dont add it to prevent stimulant jitters vs. another stimulant. Then again, it could be just one of those things where you just react differently to it.For example - tryptophan does absolutely nothing for me but a taurine, theanine, 5htp and magnesium cocktail knocks me out.Also, I dont use any stims other than half a caffeine cap before working out but I start every morning with an acetyl carnitine/acetyl tyrosine combo. If I take that combo in the afternoon, it will mess with my sleep.
Hmm. Well Ill give the new timing schedule a run tomorrow and see if it works out better. Hopefully having the Tyrosine pre-workout doesnt mess up my sleep. Thanks for the heads up.
In re: taurine… I'm of the mind it is somewhat of a nootropic – whereby it provides that 'sense of well-being' which I wouldn't necessarily equate wholly with bedtime usage, not to say it can't be used there as well.I see it similar to the now-banned 'geranium' extract, dmaa. It makes you feel as if all is good and well with the world and therefore teamed with other stimulatory agents that get the rest of you geared up.
Interesting. I could really do with experimenting with some supplements that promote deeper sleep, or even just supplements that promote alertness during the day but don't interfere with sleeping at night
Thanks Marty.Im thinking of changing the order of these. Been reading a bit more and at first I thought I had to keep Taurine and Tyrosine seperate to stop them from competing for uptake. But it appears its only the Tryptophan that competes with Tyrosine. What im thinking is Tyrosine pre workout (or mornings on off days) and taurine post with Tryptophan before bed. Dont know what it is about Taurine but its like I cant even be bothered lifting after taking it!
Yes, while I am no expert, I do know that (typically) it is always an issue with amino acids, in this case l-Tyrosine/l-Tryptophan (the'l-' is the giveaway), as far as the potential for competition for receptor site uptake. Kudos for doing the extra bit of research for that piece.
GABA is another one to look into. 3-5g (base on tolerance) before resistance training raises GH levels, and another 3-5g before bed helps ease you into sleep (and further GH release).Also, for those taking Beta Alanine p/w, it can compete with Taurine -- and Beta Alanine will win at the receptor sites, rendering the Taurine dosage useless.Cory
Interesting. I could really do with experimenting with some supplements that promote deeper sleep, or even just supplements that promote alertness during the day but don't interfere with sleeping at night
Id actually recommend Magnesium above all else for sleep. That and its important for so many other processes in the body that its hard to get enough of it. Im mostly experimenting with this stuff because I feel like Ive got my diet/training to the point where muscle recovery isnt an issue but keeping my CNS fresh is becoming more of a delicate balancing act. Ironically since starting to use these "CNS recovery supps" my muscles have been sore after every workout. Normally maybe 1 out of 4 workouts would produce any noticable soreness. Still, not hitting any PRs or noticing any attributing improvement in lifts so far.
GABA is another one to look into. 3-5g (base on tolerance) before resistance training raises GH levels, and another 3-5g before bed helps ease you into sleep (and further GH release).Also, for those taking Beta Alanine p/w, it can compete with Taurine -- and Beta Alanine will win at the receptor sites, rendering the Taurine dosage useless.Cory
From what Ive read it appears the production of GABA is part of what causes the relaxation of the CNS. Which would seem like a bad idea pre-workout. This is why I now think the Taurine messes me up so much.
Bought some zinc and magnesium and am now taking it before bed… We'll see if it makes any difference, but I'm just trying everything I can think of so won't know what actually does work, if something does. I'm on 13 different supplements now! Half of my food cupboard is composed entirely of supplements, the other half of junk food! (All dairy + meat is in the fridge.)Going to the doc about tiredness today! I'm half expecting him to just tell me it's 'normal' or offer to give me some tranquilizers or something ...
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