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Just read Kiefer's most recent article on DH.com. I posted a comment but not sure it went through so figured I would get some feed back here.There is a huge emphasis to get 1:1 fat to pro ratio on ULC portion (whether its carb backloading or CNS). Based on Kiefer's article and the research, it seems that the 1:1 ratio may not be that essential...some people may even do better at higher pro than fat (like John Anderson). Or is this article more so focused on fat PRODUCTION where as the 1:1 ratio is more beneficial for fat LOSS? Any thoughts on that?Secondly, my take home message from this article is that the ONLY time we should be eating a combination of carbs and fat (at the same meal) is later in our back loading window. Other wise there is really no beneficial time for these 2 macros to be combined. Would that be correct?
Keep in mind Kiefer stated this IF your goal was maximal fat loss, which would fit more along the lines of SA vs DB.
Ah that makes more sense. So one could do CBL SA "normally" and then do a badass switch to a Maximum Fat Loss CBL SA? I like this idea if that's the case >=]
You got it.
Haha awesome!! I wonder how to really incorporate this way of fat loss for CN.
I would imagine having your carb nite (PWO or just breaking the ULC phase) would start off with low to no fat, then end the evening with some of the fatty junk. Even though it's two totally different systems what we are concerned about has the same pattern, being they both involve loading carbs. But as Kiefer has commented in that article CBL benefits more from this fine tuning as Carb Nite people are experiencing the same results with a wide range of macros.
HAHA! I am lost! Do I need to do something different with my fat and protein on CBL for fat loss?
+1This is like being in class and just shaking your head "YES" and then hope someone could explain it to me later.
HAHA! I am lost! Do I need to do something different with my fat and protein on CBL for fat loss?
+1This is like being in class and just shaking your head "YES" and then hope someone could explain it to me later.
YEP! School vs. ADD all over again! Seriously though, I think I am confused because this is always how I eat my carbs...clean first, dirty after....So the article is either:A)telling me to do what I am doingB)I overlooked something important in the articleC)or I am over thinking this threadAny one of these can apply to any confusion I might have about carb nite or CBL at any time.
HAHA! I am lost! Do I need to do something different with my fat and protein on CBL for fat loss?
+1This is like being in class and just shaking your head "YES" and then hope someone could explain it to me later.
YEP! School vs. ADD all over again! Seriously though, I think I am confused because this is always how I eat my carbs...clean first, dirty after....So the article is either:A)telling me to do what I am doingB)I overlooked something important in the articleC)or I am over thinking this threadAny one of these can apply to any confusion I might have about carb nite or CBL at any time.
A) yes your overthinking things :).B) If you eat cleaner (lower fat) carbs first then the junk later you are fine, keep doing what you are doing.
huh? i'm confused. I was sure the book said start off dirty then clean it up later?Also I'm still confused about how long the backload should be. The book said its almost impossible to store fat for 2 hours after your workout, so one would assume that the backload is supposed to be 2 hours. But in this latest article he mentions "the last 2 hours of the backload" Well I thought that WAS the backload. wtf?
Ok this new information is for maximal fat loss while using CBL. I'm sure Kiefer still stands by his research and book about can't store fat 2 hours PWO. I know there has been plenty off members who ate pizza for dinner and finished off with ice cream. Ms Alex Navarro recently did that for her backload week, had pizza and ice cream, and she looks amazing.
I think the problem here is that there is no definition for “clean” or “dirty”, and either one can be both high fat or low fat. That makes the explanations confusing.
I think the problem here is that there is no definition for "clean" or "dirty", and either one can be both high fat or low fat. That makes the explanations confusing.
I'll admit, the clean/dirty distinction confuses me a bit, unless it is as someone recently stated that clean is low/no fat and dirty is high fat.Also, how long should we wait approximately to incorporate fat? I'm thinking of doing Protein+Dextrose for a shake and then an hour later have another shake with whole milk, fruits, and peanut butter, but now I'm thinking it might need to wait more than just an hour.
That is a good question, I know at least 2 hours before bed for a high fat carb meal. Maybe have that low fat carb/proton dinner then maybe an hour later the enjoyable carb meal?
If you exercise around 5pm, PWO shake around 6pm, dinner with minimal fat at 6:30-7:30pm, dessert at 8:30-10pm with whatever fat content you desire.
Does anyone else just basically keep their fats pre-training, and carbs after? I may get some fat from some pork for dinner, or some from pop-tarts or such, but I don't see much of a benefit to eating too much during the Backload, unless you just really have a sweet tooth.
DH Kiefer wrote:An ultra-low carb diet that contains rich amounts of odd-chain fatty acids, however, allows the body to maintain blood glucose levels at the previous amount. In other words, an ultra-low carb diet rich in OCFAs, is not ketogenic.great takeaway message for CNSPoints I took out of the article:1. Animal Fats are far better than dairy and vegetable fats for ULC...because they are, "Since animal fats do contain a certain amount of OCFAs (not usually more than 5% total[34]), it’s actually a good reason to eat animal sources for the ability of the OCFAs to supply the small amount of glucose needed for the brain while preserving protein retention."2. Having a cleaner load of carbohydrate (dextrose mainly) and amino acids post workout would be more optimal than having a source of carbs and fat. "To break the ketogenic cycle, we should use as pure of glucose as possible. For example, immediately post training (or the first meal that breaks the ketogenic part of the diet), we should ingest primarily glucose (not sucrose and not honey, as it’s possible that the disaccharides can be more lipogenic than fructose alone[35])."There is a two hour window of optimal protein synthesis that is activated by 20g amino acids and/or 5g leucine. From the studies I've read it lasts about 2hours then starts to degrade. Therefore you stimulate MPS with the postworkout influx of protein and carbohydrate, as long as it's enough to drive up insulin and increase the amino acid pool going to the muscles by the increased GLUT4 response from muscular contractions. 3. The dirtier load of carbs, fats, and proteins the following 2-4hours after the anabolic window, (which from what I get out of Keifer's research is that fat lipogenesis is inhibited for 2 hours after workouts, and then the final 2-6 hours postworkout is for glycogen synthesis in the muscle tissue). So we are really talking about two effects here...muscle protein system activation, then refilling glycogen stores, which makes the muscle pop out in the morning from filling them up with glycogen. The overall window I believe would be individualistic and depending upon the workout, the time duration, and how much overall muscle mass has been stimulated by the workout would determine how much glycogen or overall carb loading would be acceptable for each person. How'd I do...did I miss anything.
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