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Hey all,Kiefer states that Leucine is important to use regardless of fat loss or muscle gain goals. However he also states that Leucine will raise / spike insulin levels. My understanding of things means that those two statements contradict each other. On CNS we are supposed to keep insulin as low as possible until carb nite... So wouldn't supplementing with Leucine on our ULC days raise insulin levels and ruin things? Am I missing something or is my understanding off somewhere?
It is needed for a PWO Shake, to keep the body from being any more catabloic and more anabolic. Muscle recovery/growth. It will quickly raise insulin and quickly lower.
Thanks Big Tex,That's how I understand it for CBL. Just wasn't sure if / how the same applied to CNS. I know the insulin spike from Leucine without carbs present will be minimal, but unsure if it would be damaging nonetheless
It is needed for a PWO Shake, to keep the body from being any more catabloic and more anabolic. Muscle recovery/growth. It will quickly raise insulin and quickly lower.
How much or how much is too much?Strictly doing CNS for fat loss, I was doing 5g Leucine, 5g Creatine PWO. I previously wasn't doing any protein in my PWO shake (probably a noob thing, I'm still learning this part), then recently added some which actually has Leucine so I was getting 7.7g (@7716mg), maybe it was timing or benefit of the whey protein on muscle, but I slowed in weight loss, basically flat for almost 4 weeks. Would that extra @2.7g matter too much? Cut it down or keep it?I believe on the recent Fat Burning Man interview (or another recent one) Kiefer mentioned using Leucine for spiking insulin, so I'm thinking I should back it down? Except maybe for on the actual CN PWO shake.Any other Pre/PostWO shake tips appreciated!
http://athlete.io/forum/index.php?topic=17559.0Couldnt search more than halfway down the first page of the supplement section before making a post eh? Well here you go!
Thanks Glitch. Yea I read through that and a lot more before making this thread. My questions were related to CNS specifically where most others are talking about CBL. I was thinking Leucine could do more harm then good on CNS, while that clearly isn't the case with CBL.
Thanks Glitch. Yea I read through that and a lot more before making this thread. My questions were related to CNS specifically where most others are talking about CBL. I was thinking Leucine could do more harm then good on CNS, while that clearly isn't the case with CBL.
Well depending on how you read that thread and who you believe, you should have come to a pretty good idea yourself. I see no real reason that Leucine would hurt and a lot to believe it would help someone on a carb restricted diet.
Thanks Glitch. Yea I read through that and a lot more before making this thread. My questions were related to CNS specifically where most others are talking about CBL. I was thinking Leucine could do more harm then good on CNS, while that clearly isn't the case with CBL.
Well depending on how you read that thread and who you believe, you should have come to a pretty good idea yourself. I see no real reason that Leucine would hurt and a lot to believe it would help someone on a carb restricted diet.
+1
Sorry to bump this back up (still a noob here) but the latest Q&A gave me a 'wtf' moment… since he suggests to use 5g+ for a spike.https://soundcloud.com/body-io-fm/episode-7-q-a-with-kiefer-and-rockySo that seems a bit confusing... do we:On CNS, PWO, ULC days, no Leucine?On CNS, PWO, CN, add Leucine?Or is it a Leucine + carbs combo that is actually the spike? so use some (amount could vary ULC/CN) all the time PWO?Or did I hear or understand it wrong?
Even on CNS, you need a spike to prevent your body from continue catabolism. So a shake with whey and leucine is honestly a good idea. The amount of leucine he suggest increasing to can help those mimic an actual CN if you're stalling somehow.
Sorry to bump this back up (still a noob here) but the latest Q&A gave me a 'wtf' moment... since he suggests to use 5g+ for a spike.https://soundcloud.com/body-io-fm/episode-7-q-a-with-kiefer-and-rockySo that seems a bit confusing... do we:On CNS, PWO, ULC days, no Leucine?On CNS, PWO, CN, add Leucine?Or is it a Leucine + carbs combo that is actually the spike? so use some (amount could vary ULC/CN) all the time PWO?Or did I hear or understand it wrong?
Combining Leucine with a whole protein source, in particular "fast digesting" sources like whey will spike insulin and certainly will when used with carbs. Personally I find the idea of spiking insulin without carbs (to borrow Kiefer's favorite word) asinine. Unless of course you enjoy hypoglycemia and tearing down muscle and other protein containing tissue. He even mentioned the athletes using a small amount of carbs and insulin injections looking a bit sickly. I'm not surprised since they are running on a fat metabolism and stress hormones and trying to be super active.
Ok thanks, I just got a bit worried because my PWO had 5g added (so multiple times a week PWO in the evening followed by ULC meal, plus 1 true CN weekly), and actually my whey has 2.5g that I didn't notice at first, so I immediately correlated this with a slow/plateau I saw in Jan/Feb. I did cut down on the added scoop. Most likely other things or a combination of things :-Appreciate you guys responding!
Ok thanks, I just got a bit worried because my PWO had 5g added (so multiple times a week PWO in the evening followed by ULC meal, plus 1 true CN weekly), and actually my whey has 2.5g that I didn't notice at first, so I immediately correlated this with a slow/plateau I saw in Jan/Feb. I did cut down on the added scoop. Most likely other things or a combination of things :-Appreciate you guys responding!
AC how long have you been doing CN, and what were your stats to start with and where are you at currently?
AC how long have you been doing CN, and what were your stats to start with and where are you at currently?
I should probably make a separate intro thread or log to go into more detail, but I have been doing CNS for a while with great success. Slow/plateau was too harsh and I should realize this before quickly posting. Reflecting on this, I also have plenty of things I should do to help continue/improve CNS, and the leucine thing is probably the most minor of them. I'll probably work on something more detailed in the future, as you read this just remember I'm still new at this health/fitness thing, and you'll probably say 'huh', 'why', 'doh', and 'wtf' a lot 🙂 but I'm learning and willing to learn more.But here are the highlights:
- Male, 5'6"
- Sept 16 2012 - age 30, finally said it's time for a change, didn't know about CNS, but officially logged a weigh in at 369 (I know it would have been more previous to this).
- Oct 2012 - Roommate who's into fitness/health started CNS/CBL and told me about it, I'd done Atkins before, read 4HR body, seemed like a good spin on the low carb thing.
- Nov 5 2012 - Having read the book, started CNS. (apparently no start weight logged, no photos, though I regret that)
- Nov 29 2012 - 342.5
- Jan 24 2013 - 330.8, turned 31
- Jun 2 2013 - 310.8, started going to the gym heh
- Jul 18 2013 - 299 bitches
- Sep 8 2013 - 284.4
- Nov 27 2013 - 260.6
- Dec 30 2013 - 254.6, started taking a PWO shake lol
- Feb 2 2014 - 249.6, now 32
- Mar 8 2014 - 248.8, had a vacation Feb 18-22 and reoriented
So probably @35-40% body fat given height/weight, I've also taken breaks off to enjoy vacation and holidays. I have not yet read CBL.My advice to myself:
- Your cloths are looser, you're lifting/making gains there, it won't show on the scale dumbass.
- You've grown to enjoy going to the gym, basically nightly, not always doing a bunch of stuff, but this might be part of the problem, if there even is a 'problem'.
- Get more sleep during the work week.
- Re-track your macros again, make sure the fats are up.
This in itself was a rather healthy activity, and helps me refocus and think about things, thanks! 🙂
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