- This topic has 7 voices and 20 replies.
-
Posts
-
Hi, I've bought some leucine, but was wondering if I should add it to my PWO shake if I train in the morning and not back loading till the evenings.Likewise what time of day and which days should I take it on?
Ok cool, but just re-reading the section in CBL book and leucine increases insulin. Is this what we are trying to avoid PWO in the morning?
Ok cool, but just re-reading the section in CBL book and leucine increases insulin. Is this what we are trying to avoid PWO in the morning?
No, you still spike insulin PWO even if you train in the morning.Depending on your goals you just may do it without any carbs though.
Awesome. I'll start adding it to my shakes from now on. I'll see how think go before I add carbs to it too.Cheers 😀
I am train, and have added Leucine to my shake ever since starting the ULC lifestyle. Just don't go above 5g. Be careful adding as well because lots of Whey supplements already have leucine in them.Mine contains 2.8g so I never add more than 2.2g to it. Also I dont know your eating schedule but I personally recommend waiting 30-60 minutes after PWO Shake to eat, esp if your using MCT (Coconut Oil or Pure) in your meals.
I am train, and have added Leucine to my shake ever since starting the ULC lifestyle. Just don't go above 5g. Be careful adding as well because lots of Whey supplements already have leucine in them.Mine contains 2.8g so I never add more than 2.2g to it. Also I dont know your eating schedule but I personally recommend waiting 30-60 minutes after PWO Shake to eat, esp if your using MCT (Coconut Oil or Pure) in your meals.
No damage done if you do go more than 5g, just a waste of product as it surpasses the effectiveness.
I am train, and have added Leucine to my shake ever since starting the ULC lifestyle. Just don't go above 5g. Be careful adding as well because lots of Whey supplements already have leucine in them.Mine contains 2.8g so I never add more than 2.2g to it. Also I dont know your eating schedule but I personally recommend waiting 30-60 minutes after PWO Shake to eat, esp if your using MCT (Coconut Oil or Pure) in your meals.
No damage done if you do go more than 5g, just a waste of product as it surpasses the effectiveness.
Not true at all, many people supplement with up to 20g of leucine. More than this can cause glycemic issues. Basically the more you take the bigger the spike. 5g is the max your going to need on an AM lift to get the necessary rise in insulin. More than this will raise it too high for too long.
I am train, and have added Leucine to my shake ever since starting the ULC lifestyle. Just don't go above 5g. Be careful adding as well because lots of Whey supplements already have leucine in them.Mine contains 2.8g so I never add more than 2.2g to it. Also I dont know your eating schedule but I personally recommend waiting 30-60 minutes after PWO Shake to eat, esp if your using MCT (Coconut Oil or Pure) in your meals.
No damage done if you do go more than 5g, just a waste of product as it surpasses the effectiveness.
Not true at all, many people supplement with up to 20g of leucine. More than this can cause glycemic issues. Basically the more you take the bigger the spike. 5g is the max your going to need on an AM lift to get the necessary rise in insulin. More than this will raise it too high for too long.
Interesting, but I still don't see "too high too long" as a necessarily bad thing provided you're in the PWO, or other time we're desiring a high insulin level. Plus this doesn't take into account body mass. Is 5g leucine the same to a 320lb, powerlifter with 250+lbs lean mass as it is to me? I doubt it, but it is probably still a good MED.. I'm just saying you're not going to die if you don't measure precisely and you accidentally put 7g in your shake. Or can't remember if you added it already so you drop another 5g in and end up with 10g. You're not going to create any issues, so it's not something to worry about. Even in CBL it says don't worry about it being harmful until several pounds. And even in an excessive situation on, say, a carb nite, we're only getting MAYBE 2 ounces.
From what I understand, 5 g is the cap of getting the benefit of extra protein synthesis. I never heard of the insulin spike from more than 5 g though.
+1 On the taste-not a fan at all.TCB- In an AM training sitituation (like the one being discussed on this thread). You want a very short yet very high rise in insulin, ideally without the use of carbs. This is where the leucine comes in.. More than 5g will make the rise last longer than we want, because we want to return to baseline, and continue burning fat as fast as possible.There is a ton of information about the effects of leucine on insulin levels. One prime reason we eat fat with our meat is because of leucine. We get 2-4g in every couple ounces of chicken naturally. The process of getting to our small intestine is slower because it is being digested from a whole food source. Chicken which we only get about 75% of the protein from absorbed anyhow. Therefor we combat the effects of insulin levels with dietary fats. Probably another reason Keifer waves the caution flag on eggs. They are the only complete protein that we digest 100% of the protein from. And they are relatively easy for our bodies to digest.
+1 On the taste-not a fan at all.TCB- In an AM training sitituation (like the one being discussed on this thread). You want a very short yet very high rise in insulin, ideally without the use of carbs. This is where the leucine comes in.. More than 5g will make the rise last longer than we want, because we want to return to baseline, and continue burning fat as fast as possible.
While the taste isn't good, it really doesn't bother me. Especially straight. It seems more nasty when I mix it in with other stuff.. I'm weird.Though, I'd still say that worrying about more than 5g, even with AM training, is much ado about nothing. I can't really say that if you take 8g and the mTOR pathway remains viable for another 20minutes or whatever, that that is necessarily a bad thing. Especially because you likely aren't going to be eating again within the time frame that the insulin will be elevated. And I don't necessarily agree with ideally not using carbs after AM training, either. Completely goal-dependent, as shown by the book recommending carbs then.I don't really even measure my leucine. I just take two rounded tsp's in my PWO, and with my backloads.. Which I'd guess is between 3g and 5g each dose, but not really sure. I'm definitely not advocating to take 10-15g at a time, because I really believe the MED is in that 3-5g range and any more you're just pissing away money, but I just can't believe it will cause negative, noticeable effects in going a bit over. (Except possibly diarrhea. I accidentally did 10g and then 5g an hour later and had some... issues.)
this is very interesting. I also am a morning fasted trainer and I pretty much follow CBL to the letter, which means I include carbs in my PWO shake right after training per Keifer's recipe recommendation. So it sounds like the insulin spike we want after working work out in the morning can be obtained by substituting 5g of Leucine for the 20-40g of carbs Keifer recommends in the post work out shake? And I'm assuming that since you get the same spike, but don't have to burn the carbs, you'll get a better fat burn with this substitution? Sound about right?As mentioned, everything is goal-dependent, but it sounds like to help strip a little bit of extra fat substituting a few grams of luecine for carbs in the morning PWO will help.
+1 On the taste-not a fan at all.TCB- In an AM training sitituation (like the one being discussed on this thread). You want a very short yet very high rise in insulin, ideally without the use of carbs. This is where the leucine comes in.. More than 5g will make the rise last longer than we want, because we want to return to baseline, and continue burning fat as fast as possible.
While the taste isn't good, it really doesn't bother me. Especially straight. It seems more nasty when I mix it in with other stuff.. I'm weird.Though, I'd still say that worrying about more than 5g, even with AM training, is much ado about nothing. I can't really say that if you take 8g and the mTOR pathway remains viable for another 20minutes or whatever, that that is necessarily a bad thing. Especially because you likely aren't going to be eating again within the time frame that the insulin will be elevated. And I don't necessarily agree with ideally not using carbs after AM training, either. Completely goal-dependent, as shown by the book recommending carbs then.I don't really even measure my leucine. I just take two rounded tsp's in my PWO, and with my backloads.. Which I'd guess is between 3g and 5g each dose, but not really sure. I'm definitely not advocating to take 10-15g at a time, because I really believe the MED is in that 3-5g range and any more you're just pissing away money, but I just can't believe it will cause negative, noticeable effects in going a bit over. (Except possibly diarrhea. I accidentally did 10g and then 5g an hour later and had some... issues.)
TCB the use of Leucine doesn't keep the mTOR pathway "open" any longer, it WILL raise insulin levels longer. And your not going to "piss away" any of the Leucine. Thats like saying when you eat 6oz of chicken you only get 2-3oz of it. Which isnt true. Your body will utilize 100% of that Leucine. Furthermore it will use 100% of the amino acids its given, unless your already at a postive nitrogen balance, which you will not be esp in AM training. The excess Leucine will cause prolonged, high insulin level. 5g is the MAX recommendation for morning training because of this. Thats just fact. Beelly- if you trade off the Leucine for the Carbs, your going to be sacrifising optimal fat burning situtation. The carbs in the AM may tell your body to continue to burn them throughout the day. Refer to the meal timing chart for AM lifting for a detailed example. I recommend just Leucine, and MCT's with the first meal after PWO to let your body know that fat is what it wants throughout the day. If your not at all worried about gaining some fat, you can do carbs, its just not optimal.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.