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My morning meal is BCAA, 20-25g Protein and 50-60g Fat, 30 of which come from CO. And no ill effects. BCAA will effect MPS regardless. http://www.t-nation.com/supplements/protein-pulsing-for-muscle
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https://one.body.io/forums/topic/inchxinch-b2b-log-were-in-hell-gentlemen/
I currently do morning training fasted with black coffee pre-workout. Sounds like I should try some BCAA pre-workout, and then use my postworkout shake w/ leucine and hydrolysates (per CBL recommendations) after as normal with some carbs?Any thoughts on pills vs powder? I'd like to just pop a pill for the sake of ease.
As I understand the difference, it's not a problem of leucine in particular but what type of macro nutrients are available during the time of the insulin spike. An insulin spike alone without carbs or protein available will not create a condition for fat storage or muscle gain but that insulin spike alone can stop fat loss. If a main goal is fat loss then most insulin spikes are not wanted.If a main goal is muscle growth then that leucine created insulin spike with protein available is wanted since you are not worried about the stopping of losing fat.Is this reasonable logic?There seem to be many combinations:1. Insulin spike alone2. Insulin spike with protein present3. Insulin spike with carbs present4. Insulin spike with carbs and protein presentEach of those four above can be further combined when used post workout with tGLUT activation. All of those can be combined with doing it AM or PM.
As I understand the difference, it's not a problem of leucine in particular but what type of macro nutrients are available during the time of the insulin spike. An insulin spike alone without carbs or protein available will not create a condition for fat storage or muscle gain but that insulin spike alone can stop fat loss. If a main goal is fat loss then most insulin spikes are not wanted.If a main goal is muscle growth then that leucine created insulin spike with protein available is wanted since you are not worried about the stopping of losing fat.Is this reasonable logic?There seem to be many combinations:1. Insulin spike alone2. Insulin spike with protein present3. Insulin spike with carbs present4. Insulin spike with carbs and protein presentEach of those four above can be further combined when used post workout with tGLUT activation. All of those can be combined with doing it AM or PM.
the point of my post was that there was little to no insulin spike with leucine alone. an actual insulin spike without any food/calories present would not be a good thing. thatd send you dangerously hypoglycemic. so what Im getting at is that leucine on its own shouldnt cause a problem in regards to insulin halting fatloss if consumed on its own away from carbs or a large amount of protein.
Pills will have a delayed release. A micronized BCAA powder is what your looking for first thing.
makes sense. Thanks bach
the point of my post was that there was little to no insulin spike with leucine alone. an actual insulin spike without any food/calories present would not be a good thing. thatd send you dangerously hypoglycemic. so what Im getting at is that leucine on its own shouldnt cause a problem in regards to insulin halting fatloss if consumed on its own away from carbs or a large amount of protein.
That seems to be true. It also seems to be true that ANY insulin spike, even a tiny one for some of us (older, fatter, more metaboliccaly broken types) will stop fat loss. A young lean guy on CBL with a primary focus of muscle gain no problem, an older fatter guy on CN with a primary focus of fat loss possible problem. As one of those older fatter types on CN the only time I seem to be able to use leucine effectively is with dextrose and only post workout just prior to starting my CN.
the point of my post was that there was little to no insulin spike with leucine alone. an actual insulin spike without any food/calories present would not be a good thing. thatd send you dangerously hypoglycemic. so what Im getting at is that leucine on its own shouldnt cause a problem in regards to insulin halting fatloss if consumed on its own away from carbs or a large amount of protein.
That seems to be true. It also seems to be true that ANY insulin spike, even a tiny one for some of us (older, fatter, more metaboliccaly broken types) will stop fat loss. A young lean guy on CBL with a primary focus of muscle gain no problem, an older fatter guy on CN with a primary focus of fat loss possible problem. As one of those older fatter types on CN the only time I seem to be able to use leucine effectively is with dextrose and only post workout just prior to starting my CN.
Hmmm. Im not sure about that really. If you consider that people with metabolic problems (i.e insulin resistance) actually need more insulin to do the same job, it doesnt make much sense that such a small amount of something so weakly insulinogenic without a source of carbs/calories would stop fat burning. Also you'd have to consider the studies that show that older people probably need more leucine to start anabolism/protein synthesis than younger people. In theory older individuals would benefit from leucine supplementation even more than young ones who have less "anabolic resistance". I guess you also have to weigh up your goals. If you need more muscle mass in order to continue losing fat in a healthy way, then the potential to partially hinder fat loss vs the increased gains in muscle (which should help fatloss!) has to be considered. If you have all the muscle you need and are just looking to get down that last 2% BF then maybe ditch the leucine. If you are attempting to bulk then leucine can be a helpful addition.
the point of my post was that there was little to no insulin spike with leucine alone. an actual insulin spike without any food/calories present would not be a good thing. thatd send you dangerously hypoglycemic. so what Im getting at is that leucine on its own shouldnt cause a problem in regards to insulin halting fatloss if consumed on its own away from carbs or a large amount of protein.
That seems to be true. It also seems to be true that ANY insulin spike, even a tiny one for some of us (older, fatter, more metaboliccaly broken types) will stop fat loss. A young lean guy on CBL with a primary focus of muscle gain no problem, an older fatter guy on CN with a primary focus of fat loss possible problem. As one of those older fatter types on CN the only time I seem to be able to use leucine effectively is with dextrose and only post workout just prior to starting my CN.
Unless your never eating meat, or vegetables. You are getting a comparable spike every time you eat a meal than with leucine alone- or even BCAA. That was the figure of this thread and the graph Glitche posted illustrates it well. Adding Leucine to a whey protein and/or high GI carb makes the spike larger yes, but with a ULC meal or alone its not going to do much as far as insulin response goes. IMO the metabolic benefits outweigh any effects on insulin no matter what your goals are.
the point of my post was that there was little to no insulin spike with leucine alone. an actual insulin spike without any food/calories present would not be a good thing. thatd send you dangerously hypoglycemic. so what Im getting at is that leucine on its own shouldnt cause a problem in regards to insulin halting fatloss if consumed on its own away from carbs or a large amount of protein.
That seems to be true. It also seems to be true that ANY insulin spike, even a tiny one for some of us (older, fatter, more metaboliccaly broken types) will stop fat loss. A young lean guy on CBL with a primary focus of muscle gain no problem, an older fatter guy on CN with a primary focus of fat loss possible problem. As one of those older fatter types on CN the only time I seem to be able to use leucine effectively is with dextrose and only post workout just prior to starting my CN.
Hmmm. Im not sure about that really. If you consider that people with metabolic problems (i.e insulin resistance) actually need more insulin to do the same job, it doesnt make much sense that such a small amount of something so weakly insulinogenic without a source of carbs/calories would stop fat burning. Also you'd have to consider the studies that show that older people probably need more leucine to start anabolism/protein synthesis than younger people. In theory older individuals would benefit from leucine supplementation even more than young ones who have less "anabolic resistance". I guess you also have to weigh up your goals. If you need more muscle mass in order to continue losing fat in a healthy way, then the potential to partially hinder fat loss vs the increased gains in muscle (which should help fatloss!) has to be considered. If you have all the muscle you need and are just looking to get down that last 2% BF then maybe ditch the leucine. If you are attempting to bulk then leucine can be a helpful addition.
Good thoughts. My understanding of someone with some amount of insulin resistance is that person will secrete an even larger amount of insulin over someone who is in a normal insulin sensitive state. So in this example of leucine the same dosage in an insulin resistant person will cause a larger insulin spike than a normal person. That larger than normal insulin spike will be even more detrimental if your goal is continued fat loss.I suppose it goes to show that a person who is somewhat metabolically broken (older, fatter, etc) has a more difficult time doing all the above. Either anabolic muscle stimulation or catabolic fat loss. Ah, to be 23 again....The more I understand all of this the more I realize it is VERY person specific as the the effects. Base knowledge is great but self experimentation is the key to being successful.
Update: I have been using a scoop of Xtend (about 3.5g leucine) 3-4 times a day between meals (usually an hour or two either side) since I posted my first response in this thread. So far I appear to have gained about 1.5kg without any fat gain and possibly lost a small amount since I seem a little more defined round the middle abs. Nothing else has changed in my diet. If anything I ate less food over the xmas/new year period. Im certainly not afraid of leucine throwing me out of fat burning or anything so ridiculous.
Update: I have been using a scoop of Xtend (about 3.5g leucine) 3-4 times a day between meals (usually an hour or two either side) since I posted my first response in this thread. So far I appear to have gained about 1.5kg without any fat gain and possibly lost a small amount since I seem a little more defined round the middle abs. Nothing else has changed in my diet. If anything I ate less food over the xmas/new year period. Im certainly not afraid of leucine throwing me out of fat burning or anything so ridiculous.
i'd try the bcaa pulse thing if i could afford it.. as it stands i can only afford to use 1 serving a day
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