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What I think about that:I knew Lyle MacDonald with Ultimate Diet 2 and I used it during 2 years for fat loss and muscle gain.For muscle gain, it didn't work for meFor fat loss, I lost about 1lbs a week but it was VERY difficult to hold this diet: 1200kCal a day during 4 days with not enough fat to my mind. I didn't remember ratios but rssentially prots and about 60g of carbs (just after workout)4500kcal during the refeed day (essentially carbs during 30 hours)Very difficult to hold. Workouts too grueling in full body.Now, I tested IF during 6 months before knowing Kiefer's diets. Very instructive. And it worked with 20 hours fasting.But when I discovered Kiefer it has been à revelation for me and a new discovery of how our body is working (as far as hormons are concerned)I tried CBL a few weeks before going to CNS to loose à max of fat.This diet changes my life. I'm not hungry all the time, I'm not tired all the day and I like so much to eat as much as good fats (good for me 🙂 ). - this, compared to UD2 protocol.Result : 1 for Kiefer, 0 for MacDonaldPS. Yes, it's very annoying when you discuss with Lyle and he says to fuck off 'cause what you say does not suit him 🙁
Lyle McDonald has put out some good info, and has obviously helped alot of people achieve their goals. The only problem is that he has the personality of a fried lobster.
@S You really can't blame him for being so grumpy when he's low carbing without fat 😉
According to Lyle, 60g of carbs are a minima (especially for brain). No need to go under 60g (neither above) with UD2 but calories amount is divided by 2 during 4 days! Very tiring
According to Lyle, 60g of carbs are a minima (especially for brain). No need to go under 60g (neither above) with UD2 but calories amount is divided by 2 during 4 days! Very tiring
One of my reasons for stating he isn't very intelligent in that regard. He understands ketogenesis, but his extrapolations from that are weird and nonsensical. In addition, red flags should always go up when you ask a guy to clarify his findings, and his answer is "fuck you." In contrast, Kiefer's response is ALWAYS something like, "well X study showed this which makes sense since it was validated from study Y and Z." Pretty big difference in intelligence from there IMO.
I have looked at the abstracts (the full study when available) of a lot of studies that Kiefer cited on certain points that I didn't believe. Kiefer's interpretation was always the one I arrived to after reading what I could.The truth is, this is a business and Lyle McDonald has to compete with Kiefer, especially if their protocols conflict with each other. I can't comment on Lyle McDonald because I know very little about him.Personally, I deeply respect Kiefer's education and background in the hard sciences. That is why I am one of his followers.
Without taking sides, I would say one should always maintain an eye of skepticism, regardless, that way you are always open to new information. I disagree in part with your statement that Lyles comments are business based, because If you read any of Lyles books, which I have, he clearly contradicts many of the protocols Kiefer suggests. So their clearly is a factual disagreement with both men how they interpret the data that they are using to arrive at their conclusions. For example: Lyle McDonalds UD 2.0, pp59, Re: pre-carb load training; "preparing for pre-carb load work out. Consume 25-30grams of carbs with 15grams whey. This accomplishes a few things. First, it starts to shift you out of a ketogenic state, so you can resume anabolism and start the carb-load. The increase in insulin will also lower free fatty acids, helping to increase insulin sensitivity. Second it will make you much stronger in the gym by raising blood glucos from low-normal levels. Third it will provide amino acids for growth."Example 2: pp64 UD 2.0 Re: Caffeine consumpition peri-carbload; "You don't want to use thermogenics today although small amounts of caffeine may help to keep you awake. Thermogenics like ephedirine and clen impair insulin sensitivity which will the limit the effectiveness of your carb-load. High doses of caffeine do as well so try to limit it if at all possible." This is in direct conflict with Keifers assertion that we want to increase insulin IN-sensitivity pre-during, and post training, where Keifer seems to rely more on tglut4 activation as the main metabolic pathway allowing glucose to be transported to muscle cells, irrespective of insulin sensitivity.Also Lyle, who wrote the book on Ketogenic diets, seems to feel Ketosis is completely unimportant in fat loss and is only a tangential consequence of little relevance. I'm not trying to come off as a Lyle sycophant or a Kiefer doubter, I simply enjoy thoughtful discussion of the facts with like minded people. I hate it when Lyle says things like "Kiefer is wrong 99% of the time" without stating why, although I'm sure he has his facts, it would be nice for him share, same goes for Aragon et al. On the converse I think it's important to not give to much reverence to any one person at the risk of becoming blind to new information.
This is why I read whatever info I could on Kiefer's sources. I don't take anybody's word for it. if I blindly followed him I wouldn't have done that. This is true especially if anyone wants my money, which is what I meant when people said this is a business. Both guys are trying to make a buck. Those two examples you posted, both Lyle and Kiefer are right, but both of them are competing for the same market. One way to win them over is to design a diet that allows you to eat junk (Kiefer). Another way is to talk trash on the other guy. Maybe this is why Kiefer talks some trash on Layne Norton.
Lyle is kind of a bully. I've had several run ins with him on Facebook. I eventually just deleted him. For example. I'd post a video of myself lifting and he would insult my strength, my training partners and my mother. I don't care how smart you are or present yourself to be. I put absolutely zero stock into anything he says.
I should re-read Ultimate Diet 2 book (and other books of Lyle).I never took the time to consult all references of what he said. It would be very interesting to compare different studies from Kiefer and MacDonald.
According to Lyle, 60g of carbs are a minima (especially for brain). No need to go under 60g (neither above) with UD2 but calories amount is divided by 2 during 4 days! Very tiring
One of my reasons for stating he isn't very intelligent in that regard. He understands ketogenesis, but his extrapolations from that are weird and nonsensical. In addition, red flags should always go up when you ask a guy to clarify his findings, and his answer is "fuck you." In contrast, Kiefer's response is ALWAYS something like, "well X study showed this which makes sense since it was validated from study Y and Z." Pretty big difference in intelligence from there IMO.
He didn't extrapolate anything. He didnt care if you went into ketosis because it's not a huge factor in weight loss. That is the reason he recommends the carbs not drop below sixty grams unless you want to cut more calories. Further, he has clarified his findings multiple times over in the fourms of his own website, and in the books. The Bromo/Keto/Protein books are all very well referenced and very elaborate in explanation. I recommend that people should read them just for the physiological information.Also, it seems people using his diets don't seem to have any of the problems getting them to work, so theres that.
Yes his diets are working but I believe that it's really harder to follow UD2 than CNS for ex., I was tired and hungry all the time. It's not the case for CNS.And there is no specific diet for lean mass gain with McDonald
Well, sorry but there's no way on earth that I would go on a diet that required me to count calories for six months straight.
Yes his diets are working but I believe that it's really harder to follow UD2 than CNS for ex., I was tired and hungry all the time. It's not the case for CNS.And there is no specific diet for lean mass gain with McDonald
Then do a CKD, which is carb nite. Lyle's keto book had chapters about Cyclical dieting. Or try flexible dieting, which is having you just run a smaller deficit with cheat meals and short refeeds. Just because people pick UD2 (Which was meant for athletes/bodybuilders) or RFL ( which he states in the book he only wrote so people who inevitable crash dieted could do it well) doesn't mean there are non maintainable diets. Also, I'll give you the sekretz to mass gainz......Eat more. You don't need a damn diet to gain weight.And fairy, since most people track how many grams of fat/protein they are in taking, they are tracking calories. For example, my lbm is 170lbs. Now, 170lbs PRO= 680 kcal 170g Fat= 1530, for a grand total of 2210, which is 800 calories below my predicted maintenance. Also, you wouldn't have to, because lyle rarely ever recommends people diet that long without taking breaks.
Yes his diets are working but I believe that it's really harder to follow UD2 than CNS for ex., I was tired and hungry all the time. It's not the case for CNS.And there is no specific diet for lean mass gain with McDonald
Then do a CKD, which is carb nite. Lyle's keto book had chapters about Cyclical dieting. Or try flexible dieting, which is having you just run a smaller deficit with cheat meals and short refeeds. Just because people pick UD2 (Which was meant for athletes/bodybuilders) or RFL ( which he states in the book he only wrote so people who inevitable crash dieted could do it well) doesn't mean there are non maintainable diets. Also, I'll give you the sekretz to mass gainz......Eat more. You don't need a damn diet to gain weight.And fairy, since most people track how many grams of fat/protein they are in taking, they are tracking calories. For example, my lbm is 170lbs. Now, 170lbs PRO= 680 kcal 170g Fat= 1530, for a grand total of 2210, which is 800 calories below my predicted maintenance. Also, you wouldn't have to, because lyle rarely ever recommends people diet that long without taking breaks.
Eat less. You don't need a damn diet to lose weight either.
I don't want to lose weight, I want to lose fat.
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