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Has anyone read the new FLEX (w/ Jay Cutler on the cover)? It is the Nov. 2012 issue.If you have it (or can check it out at a local store), turn to page 124 (US edition). There is an article (right before Kiefer's) that is worth the magazine's price, in my opinion. It is called "Low Carbs, Big Muscles" written by Matt Porter (NPC competitor, prep coach and nutrition guru). He talks about dieting (in a fashion VERY similar to Kiefer's CNS), but while building serious mass! He does not mention any of Kiefer's diets, but the similarities are shocking, he must've been influenced, but added his own tweaks.Basically, he is suggesting you eat 2g x your LBM in protein per day (as opposed to Kiefer's 1.3g x LBM suggested ceiling). You keep carbs ultra-low (like we do with ULC). You increase healthy fats and protein in place of the lower carbs (in your calories). Only on days you train, you consume carbs in your post-workout shake only (60-90g for larger bodyparts like back, legs and chest, 30-60g for smaller bodyparts like arms and delts). Then one day each weak you'll do a re-feed, where you'd eat much like you would on a standard Carb Nite.There are some slight differences to Kiefer's ideas... like more protein, healthier fat choices (not bacon, butter, cheese, etc. rather olive oil, raw nuts, MCTs and egg yolks), etc. Might be interesting testing a hybrid of this concept w/ Keifer's Carb Nite Solution.Basically, as I see it (combining the two):-ULC 6 days a week-On days you've trained, consume carbs ONLY in your post-workout shake (see amounts I listed above).-On off-days, full ULC.-Once a week, have a full-on CN. (Here is where the concept differs a bit from CBL, and is more like CNS.)-Eat more protein. Instead of Kiefer's 1.3g x LBM ceiling, go as high as 2g x LBM.-Stick with fat choices I listed above, and skip on butter, cheeses and bacon.This could turn a regular CNS into a fucking mass-building AND cutting diet. And it would appear that it could be faster than CBL SA for this job.Here is an example meal plan that the author laid out:Meal 1:2 scoops whey isolate3 whole egg1 tbsp coconut oil5 oz. steakMeal 2:10 oz. chicken breast1 whole avocadoasparagusMeal 3:12 oz. cod1 tbsp. coconut oil1 oz. raw almondsMeal 4 (post-workout):3 scoops whey isolate2 cups basmati rice10g creatineMeal 5:8 oz. steakasparagus1 tbsp. olive oilMeal 6:5 whole eggs2 scoops casein...of course, the article explains all of this in more detail, and he breaks down the reasoning / science. Yes, I realize he has protein powders in what we'd call ULC. He also makes no mention of fasting for ~12 hours.Just thought I'd draw attention to this article b/c of the similarities with what we do. I thought we might get ideas we could try tweaking into our own diets, specifically CNS, to increase efficiency.Cory
Matt coached me for 16 weeks this spring/summer. The photo in my avi is a result of his protocols. He was definitely not an advocate of high fat time. His preferred fat sources were eggs, avocado, lean meats, and some coconut oil. We started out with typical bb type diet and soon changed to an ULC (very high protein) diet for 5 days with two carb-up days. He is (or at least was) a strong believer in frequent meals. He also uses different approaches for different clients depending on how they respond.Matt is very knowledgable and one the rare top notch trainers that are open to new ideas. I'll try to get the magazine. Love to read the article. Hope Keifer can have him on his show at some point.
Matt coached me for 16 weeks this spring/summer. The photo in my avi is a result of his protocols. He was definitely not an advocate of high fat time. His preferred fat sources were eggs, avocado, lean meats, and some coconut oil. We started out with typical bb type diet and soon changed to an ULC (very high protein) diet for 5 days with two carb-up days. He is (or at least was) a strong believer in frequent meals. He also uses different approaches for different clients depending on how they respond.Matt is very knowledgable and one the rare top notch trainers that are open to new ideas. I'll try to get the magazine. Love to read the article. Hope Keifer can have him on his show at some point.
Thank you for this reply. Maybe Kiefer will take note.Cory
I personally am on a CNS-ish diet with increased protein consumption, I don't really keep track. BFC went down so far (don't do it too long) and strength slightly increased.I don't think you should be too choosy with your fat sources, since saturatred fats are only malicious in combination with carbs. Furthermore I don't really approve of his 30 to 90 g Carbs after training, I think you should go all the way in either direction. This amount will do just damage in fat burning...In addition to that, I follow the CBL-ULC part of the day, i.e. eating just a tablespoon of coconut butter in the morning, light in the early afternoon and "backload" my kcals at night (prefferably after 7 am).Just my 2 cents..
I just suggested Matt Porter in the Guest List thread.Cory
That's great! I'll likely blend these ideas when I come off of CBL. I'm finishing week 2 tomorrow and will take weight, waist, and bf readings. My goal is to add lean mass. This summer I was 167lbs @ 9%. I'm now 179 @ 12%. So I've successfully put on 12lbs over the last 16 weeks, but its been about 50/50 LBM/fat. Hoping CBL will provide leaner gains.To be clear, Matt is not coaching me in this mass gaining phase. My approach up until now has been to slowly but steadily raise calories. Carbs were at breakfast 40%, pre-workout 20%, post 40%. Obviously very different than my current CBL diet and based on your post probably not what Matt would have recommended.Anyway, I plan on running CBL for another 6-8 weeks at most. I would continue if the results are good, but I'd need to find a way to make it more healthy. Most likely I'll use it as a tool and run it in 6-8 week periods.For my everyday diet, I'm leaning toward blending Matt's and Keifer's ideas -- morning fast, protein 1.7xlbm, only one backload meal, one night per week full blown back-load.
I personally am on a CNS-ish diet with increased protein consumption, I don't really keep track. BFC went down so far (don't do it too long) and strength slightly increased.I don't think you should be too choosy with your fat sources, since saturatred fats are only malicious in combination with carbs. Furthermore I don't really approve of his 30 to 90 g Carbs after training, I think you should go all the way in either direction. This amount will do just damage in fat burning...In addition to that, I follow the CBL-ULC part of the day, i.e. eating just a tablespoon of coconut butter in the morning, light in the early afternoon and "backload" my kcals at night (prefferably after 7 am).Just my 2 cents..
Agreed about the saturated fat and am keeping it in my diet and I sort of feel the same way about the carbs but the whole basis of this diet is geared to gaining lean mass, not necessarily fat loss and that small amount of carbs is extremely anti catabolic and will keep your body in an anabolic muscle building state. Consuming protein and leucine PWO spikes insulin and halts fat burning anyway so the carbs really hard doing much more harm. -mike
I personally am on a CNS-ish diet with increased protein consumption, I don't really keep track. BFC went down so far (don't do it too long) and strength slightly increased.I don't think you should be too choosy with your fat sources, since saturatred fats are only malicious in combination with carbs. Furthermore I don't really approve of his 30 to 90 g Carbs after training, I think you should go all the way in either direction. This amount will do just damage in fat burning...In addition to that, I follow the CBL-ULC part of the day, i.e. eating just a tablespoon of coconut butter in the morning, light in the early afternoon and "backload" my kcals at night (prefferably after 7 am).Just my 2 cents..
Thanks for sharing. Personally, I've been consuming 75g fast carbs in ea. PWO shake on CBL SA with no issues. Definition keeps coming in. Still too early to tell if muscle is growing to any great degree (haven't been on CBL long enough).Strength is definitley up.Cory
I just suggested Matt Porter in the Guest List thread.Cory
That's great! I'll likely blend these ideas when I come off of CBL. I'm finishing week 2 tomorrow and will take weight, waist, and bf readings. My goal is to add lean mass. This summer I was 167lbs @ 9%. I'm now 179 @ 12%. So I've successfully put on 12lbs over the last 16 weeks, but its been about 50/50 LBM/fat. Hoping CBL will provide leaner gains.To be clear, Matt is not coaching me in this mass gaining phase. My approach up until now has been to slowly but steadily raise calories. Carbs were at breakfast 40%, pre-workout 20%, post 40%. Obviously very different than my current CBL diet and based on your post probably not what Matt would have recommended.Anyway, I plan on running CBL for another 6-8 weeks at most. I would continue if the results are good, but I'd need to find a way to make it more healthy. Most likely I'll use it as a tool and run it in 6-8 week periods.For my everyday diet, I'm leaning toward blending Matt's and Keifer's ideas -- morning fast, protein 1.7xlbm, only one backload meal, one night per week full blown back-load.
This! That is what I was thinking after reading this article. Blending in Matt's ideas would not alienate Kiefer's, they'd actually work quite well together!Cory
wow appreciate all your help, I change a few things up and see what happens, what you said about trying to make everything perfect sounds exactly what im trying to do and when i think about it, I am probably stressed out about lot things. Thanks again for the tweaks and lets see how it goes!Cheers
Based on what youve posted about Matts diet I dont see the benefit over something like CBL SA to be honest. Protein that high is just going to be an expensive way of topping up your glycogen stores.
yeah thats an interesting point forsure, I feel that alot of low carb diets end up doing this because people bring up their protein too high.
wow appreciate all your help, I change a few things up and see what happens, what you said about trying to make everything perfect sounds exactly what im trying to do and when i think about it, I am probably stressed out about lot things. Thanks again for the tweaks and lets see how it goes!Cheers
Welcome. Anytime.Cory
Based on what youve posted about Matts diet I dont see the benefit over something like CBL SA to be honest. Protein that high is just going to be an expensive way of topping up your glycogen stores.
This is why I think it would be great to get him to talk w/ Kiefer, so he could clarify his ideas, and see where the two agree / disagree. There were a lot of similarities.Instead of back-loading, he is putting carbs exclusively in the PWO shake on training days, and includes one "CN" per week.Cory
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