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Based on what youve posted about Matts diet I dont see the benefit over something like CBL SA to be honest. Protein that high is just going to be an expensive way of topping up your glycogen stores.
This is why I think it would be great to get him to talk w/ Kiefer, so he could clarify his ideas, and see where the two agree / disagree. There were a lot of similarities.Instead of back-loading, he is putting carbs exclusively in the PWO shake on training days, and includes one "CN" per week.Cory
I agree it would be interesting to hear them talk it out but honestly Id rather Kiefer talk with Dr Pasquale since the two are advocates of low carb eating and are both very into the science side of things. Matts diet is more like the Anabolic Diet but with PWO carbs. And anecdotally I find my strength isnt as good if I have shorter backloads, even if the level of carbs is the same so I cant see myself adopting Matts approach unless I was keen to drop fat at the expense of muscle. And Im doing well of CBL SA so why change anyway! (;
Based on what youve posted about Matts diet I dont see the benefit over something like CBL SA to be honest. Protein that high is just going to be an expensive way of topping up your glycogen stores.
This is why I think it would be great to get him to talk w/ Kiefer, so he could clarify his ideas, and see where the two agree / disagree. There were a lot of similarities.Instead of back-loading, he is putting carbs exclusively in the PWO shake on training days, and includes one "CN" per week.Cory
I agree it would be interesting to hear them talk it out but honestly Id rather Kiefer talk with Dr Pasquale since the two are advocates of low carb eating and are both very into the science side of things. Matts diet is more like the Anabolic Diet but with PWO carbs. And anecdotally I find my strength isnt as good if I have shorter backloads, even if the level of carbs is the same so I cant see myself adopting Matts approach unless I was keen to drop fat at the expense of muscle. And Im doing well of CBL SA so why change anyway! (;
This is a proper point. Why fix what isn't broken. Then again, everything is relative for everyone.Cory
Based on what youve posted about Matts diet I dont see the benefit over something like CBL SA to be honest. Protein that high is just going to be an expensive way of topping up your glycogen stores.
This is why I think it would be great to get him to talk w/ Kiefer, so he could clarify his ideas, and see where the two agree / disagree. There were a lot of similarities.Instead of back-loading, he is putting carbs exclusively in the PWO shake on training days, and includes one "CN" per week.Cory
I agree it would be interesting to hear them talk it out but honestly Id rather Kiefer talk with Dr Pasquale since the two are advocates of low carb eating and are both very into the science side of things. Matts diet is more like the Anabolic Diet but with PWO carbs. And anecdotally I find my strength isnt as good if I have shorter backloads, even if the level of carbs is the same so I cant see myself adopting Matts approach unless I was keen to drop fat at the expense of muscle. And Im doing well of CBL SA so why change anyway! (;
This is a proper point. Why fix what isn't broken. Then again, everything is relative for everyone.Cory
For me it's just a matter of overall health. I plan on using CBL as a tool for either cutting or gaining lean mass, but in 6-8 week cycles. I typically like to include more and different vegetables, fruits, nuts, etc. that simply are not convenient to incorporate into CBL. I think many of the ideas of CBL can be maintained such as morning fasting and carbohydrate timing. Just that the fat and carbohydrate profile may be less than ideal for some modalities.
I wanted to add also that Matt's diet looks closer to a Modified CNS than a CBL. With that full-on CN at the end of the week and all. He just addes PWO carbs to his shakes, which standard CNS doesn't do. There is no back-load afterward.If I were to hybrid Kiefer's diet w/ Matt's, I would hybrid CNS (not CBL).Cory
I wanted to add also that Matt's diet looks closer to a Modified CNS than a CBL. With that full-on CN at the end of the week and all. He just addes PWO carbs to his shakes, which standard CNS doesn't do. There is no back-load afterward.If I were to hybrid Kiefer's diet w/ Matt's, I would hybrid CNS (not CBL).Cory
Yeah Its basically a musle-building CN in my mind? Thats the way it comes off it seems, same sort of goals as CBL SA but using for of a CNS approach to it lol I like it because I have an obsession with large quantities of meat and don't really care for carbs every night but instead let the cravings build and go nuts once 🙂
I wanted to add also that Matt's diet looks closer to a Modified CNS than a CBL. With that full-on CN at the end of the week and all. He just addes PWO carbs to his shakes, which standard CNS doesn't do. There is no back-load afterward.If I were to hybrid Kiefer's diet w/ Matt's, I would hybrid CNS (not CBL).Cory
Yeah Its basically a musle-building CN in my mind? Thats the way it comes off it seems, same sort of goals as CBL SA but using for of a CNS approach to it lol I like it because I have an obsession with large quantities of meat and don't really care for carbs every night but instead let the cravings build and go nuts once 🙂
Exactly, hence the title of this post. I saw it as more of a 'upgrade' idea for CNS. Basically, someone who wants to keep fat burning higher than w/ CBL, but wants to add some quality muscle w/o going full-blown CBL SA.Cory
Regarding the issue of credit…A guy named Chris Janusz marketed a diet around 10 yrs ago that is very similar to this and CBL/CNS. I was just recently able to find it in an old email archive.The diet gained some real interest when Christian Thibaudeau of T nation reported on his experience with it in an article on their site. Thibaudeau was not the bad ass he is now but an out of shape trainer getting back onto the right track again, and used this diet to lose a lot of fat while retaining strength and muscle mass. All existence of the article have been wiped from tnation.The training involved a 4 day split, with PWO shake (dextrose/whey) following training and a clean Carb/Pro meal an hour after that. Rest of the time was ULC, with moderate fats (flax oil was encouraged while fish oil was uncommon then). Once a week allowed for a cheat meal - sort of CN style. ALA was considered vital with the carb meals.Guy died mysteriously a few years ago. I've often wondered if anyone here had heard of him.
Regarding the issue of credit...A guy named Chris Janusz marketed a diet around 10 yrs ago that is very similar to this and CBL/CNS. I was just recently able to find it in an old email archive.The diet gained some real interest when Christian Thibaudeau of T nation reported on his experience with it in an article on their site. Thibaudeau was not the bad ass he is now but an out of shape trainer getting back onto the right track again, and used this diet to lose a lot of fat while retaining strength and muscle mass. All existence of the article have been wiped from tnation.The training involved a 4 day split, with PWO shake (dextrose/whey) following training and a clean Carb/Pro meal an hour after that. Rest of the time was ULC, with moderate fats (flax oil was encouraged while fish oil was uncommon then). Once a week allowed for a cheat meal - sort of CN style. ALA was considered vital with the carb meals.Guy died mysteriously a few years ago. I've often wondered if anyone here had heard of him.
Interesting, this is the first I am hearing of this. Never heard of Chris Janusz.A Google search did return some results: http://www.google.com/search?q=Chris+Janusz&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1...will have to read through them.Cory
Hey so curiosity struck me hard after work so I went out and bought the FLEX issue from safeway and read it over meticulously as well as doing my own research on Matt Porter. The diet actually calls for 2g per pound in protein not LBM, and it seems like he advocates more of a PWO meal so essentially drive home and have a typical first backload meal, low fat, carb+high pro meal but the protein source would be WPI or hydrosylates. The only inconsistency I found is he doesn't reccomend butter or such on for this deit but when you research his personal diet he is using butter at every meal? The way I am going to se it up is as follows, Stick to a 12-14hour fast, break the fast with 1 tbsp CO, all meals prior to training will be typical CN meals(1:1 pro fat from animal fats and CO, ie eggs and grass fed beef with bacon occasionally), pre workout will be 60g WPI, PWO will be 75 WPI with varying amount of dextrose and or rice cakes, mash potatoes, kids cereal depending on the muscle trained. The rest of the night will be lean protein and "healthy fats" until I fill my protein requirment of 380g and calorie requirement which will be 200-400 over maintanence. Rest days will be CN style ULC eating at maintanence. Fridays will be CN style refeeds Hopefully this works!
Hey so curiosity struck me hard after work so I went out and bought the FLEX issue from safeway and read it over meticulously as well as doing my own research on Matt Porter. The diet actually calls for 2g per pound in protein not LBM, and it seems like he advocates more of a PWO meal so essentially drive home and have a typical first backload meal, low fat, carb+high pro meal but the protein source would be WPI or hydrosylates. The only inconsistency I found is he doesn't reccomend butter or such on for this deit but when you research his personal diet he is using butter at every meal? The way I am going to se it up is as follows, Stick to a 12-14hour fast, break the fast with 1 tbsp CO, all meals prior to training will be typical CN meals(1:1 pro fat from animal fats and CO, ie eggs and grass fed beef with bacon occasionally), pre workout will be 60g WPI, PWO will be 75 WPI with varying amount of dextrose and or rice cakes, mash potatoes, kids cereal depending on the muscle trained. The rest of the night will be lean protein and "healthy fats" until I fill my protein requirment of 380g and calorie requirement which will be 200-400 over maintanence. Rest days will be CN style ULC eating at maintanence. Fridays will be CN style refeeds Hopefully this works!
Not a bad issue. That is a thought-provoking article by Matt. There is also a new Kiefer article (page 128), as always. A decent periodization program starting on page 210. A study on Myostatin inhibition on page 82. The Q&As w/ pros and trainers in the back.Good toilet read, as I call these magazines. ;DCory
Mikehr wrote:Consuming protein and leucine PWO spikes insulin and halts fat burning anyway so the carbs really hard doing much more harm.I think theese Carbs make your body continue producing carb-as-fat storing enzymes which you stop with an ulc diet, enabling you to no fat storage of the carbs during your refeed...
Hey so curiosity struck me hard after work so I went out and bought the FLEX issue from safeway and read it over meticulously as well as doing my own research on Matt Porter. The diet actually calls for 2g per pound in protein not LBM, and it seems like he advocates more of a PWO meal so essentially drive home and have a typical first backload meal, low fat, carb+high pro meal but the protein source would be WPI or hydrosylates. The only inconsistency I found is he doesn't reccomend butter or such on for this deit but when you research his personal diet he is using butter at every meal? The way I am going to se it up is as follows, Stick to a 12-14hour fast, break the fast with 1 tbsp CO, all meals prior to training will be typical CN meals(1:1 pro fat from animal fats and CO, ie eggs and grass fed beef with bacon occasionally), pre workout will be 60g WPI, PWO will be 75 WPI with varying amount of dextrose and or rice cakes, mash potatoes, kids cereal depending on the muscle trained. The rest of the night will be lean protein and "healthy fats" until I fill my protein requirment of 380g and calorie requirement which will be 200-400 over maintanence. Rest days will be CN style ULC eating at maintanence. Fridays will be CN style refeeds Hopefully this works!
Very similar to what I'm thinking also.I downloaded the FLEX issue to my iPad from Amazon. Damn there are a lot of supplement ads. I read up to Keifer's article and will check out the rest of the issue later.
Hey so curiosity struck me hard after work so I went out and bought the FLEX issue from safeway and read it over meticulously as well as doing my own research on Matt Porter. The diet actually calls for 2g per pound in protein not LBM, and it seems like he advocates more of a PWO meal so essentially drive home and have a typical first backload meal, low fat, carb+high pro meal but the protein source would be WPI or hydrosylates. The only inconsistency I found is he doesn't reccomend butter or such on for this deit but when you research his personal diet he is using butter at every meal? The way I am going to se it up is as follows, Stick to a 12-14hour fast, break the fast with 1 tbsp CO, all meals prior to training will be typical CN meals(1:1 pro fat from animal fats and CO, ie eggs and grass fed beef with bacon occasionally), pre workout will be 60g WPI, PWO will be 75 WPI with varying amount of dextrose and or rice cakes, mash potatoes, kids cereal depending on the muscle trained. The rest of the night will be lean protein and "healthy fats" until I fill my protein requirment of 380g and calorie requirement which will be 200-400 over maintanence. Rest days will be CN style ULC eating at maintanence. Fridays will be CN style refeeds Hopefully this works!
Not a bad issue. That is a thought-provoking article by Matt. There is also a new Kiefer article (page 128), as always. A decent periodization program starting on page 210. A study on Myostatin inhibition on page 82. The Q&As w/ pros and trainers in the back.Good toilet read, as I call these magazines. ;DCory
Might start subscribing to Flex and other "Toilet Reads" ;D not bad magazines to have especially day after a CN or backload. Though this is honestly interesting. This method of a Hybrid CNS. I know going full fledge CNS, having carbs once a week is the quickest way to drop body far and weight. If need be. But if someone was wanting to literally add some lean muscle while wanting to shed body fat, like during some months (IE Jan-March/April) then having only a certain amount of carbs PWO is the best bet. I guess the reason I'm supporting this is because during my last 6+ weeks of CBL SA, (but did CBL SA for a full 12), I based my carb intake close to my guess-timated body weight. Wasn't a lot of carbs for someone who normally backloads. Once a week I would up the amount not much but more than usual. Like during a Deload week or on Friday after Back. My fats were fairly low and protein hit 1g of BW if not higher. Let's say I did drop weight while gained strength/muscle.Almost the same set up and scheme as this recommendation.
I haven't read CNS yet. Is the re-feed an entire day or only a few nightly meals like CBL?I'm currently eating 365gm of carbs during my backloads. Incorporating Matt's outline this would switch to 60-90gm (1,450gm per week deficit). This would be a big change and I would be a little concerned about performance. I could make up 400-500gm on a re-feed day, but not in one CBL style backload. This would still be 1,000gm per week less than what I'm currently taking in with CBL.Morning: coffee with CO + 1/2 scoop whey isolate11:00am: breakfast ULC 1.0 to 0.5 pro/fat by gm2:00pm: lunch ULC 1.0 to 0.5 pro/fat by gm5:30pm: post workout with 100gm simple carb and 50gm whey isolate (leucine + creatine)7:00pm: dinner ULC 1.0 to 0.5 pro/fat by gm9:00pm: snack ULC 1.0 to 0.5 pro/fat by gmSetting protein at 380gm would yield total calories of 3,630kcal which is right in line with my current training days.
Mikehr wrote:Consuming protein and leucine PWO spikes insulin and halts fat burning anyway so the carbs really hard doing much more harm.I think theese Carbs make your body continue producing carb-as-fat storing enzymes which you stop with an ulc diet, enabling you to no fat storage of the carbs during your refeed...This is completely incorrect. Its almost impossible to get fat eating carbs around your workout. Of course, this depends on the type of trying your doing. If your going into the gym and struggling to do the most simple of exercises, then eating a large carbs post workout would be silly. However if your training correctly, carbs post workout are not going to get stored as fat.
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