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@MikeHow do you know people are storing fat after a CN?Personally, I'll put on about 5 lbs during a CN (I just eat as much as physically possible no hold barred 😉 ).Whenever I've restricted myself, or tried to eat clean my results the next week have been sub-optimal.
I guess I don't KNOW but it seems the when people stall sometime toning back their CNs gets results going again, you are very strict during the week and build up such a large deficit that it would be impossible for you to spill over, I am not trying to dispell the CN protocol but calories to matter to some extent! You cannot just stop your body from storing fat as far as I know.
Thanks for sharing the plan Cory! I think this would work better for me than CBL SA. Would like to try it in about 90 days time 🙂 Just one thing: Getting away with binging on CN requires that your glycogen stores are wiped out and that your hormones are in that special state where they're not up to storing carbs as fat. So I'm guessing that *could* be an issue, especially if you don't train all out before the CN.Another thing is some people (not me, but some people) can't take dextrose straight like that in their shake. And another thing about taking dextrose straight regularly is that there's a theroy that it might wreck gut bacteria, which can result in mal-absorption problems later on.Just my 2c 🙂
@Mike Meh. I thought that was the whole point of CN. It puts you in a state where it's almost impossible to store any number of carbs as fat, yet it is possible to throw your fat burning hormones through the roof for the next week. If you tone down your CN you might be putting yourself at risk of underboosting your fat burning hormones, which might actually fuck up your metabolism/thyroid long term if you really under ate on CN for a long period.
yeah very true I was just trying to point out that it isn't as black and white as they put it, take my mom for example she trains 3 days a week for about an hour and not very intensely, if she ate 500g of carbs as well as accompanying fats shes most definately going to spill over, you are correct that your glycogen stores must be empty and your body primed to glycogen supercompensation but everybody has their limit and the excess has to go somewhere lol Im in no way saying to tone down your CN's Im just confident in saying that I will be able to eat 50 g of carbs after each night afte my Workouts and still have a ridiculous CN once a week with little to no negative effect.
Ladies? I was just stating that eating CHOs every day makes your body continue produing these nasty (in the CNS sense) carbs-to-fat converting enzymes which 4 days ULC just doesn't. At that point you can really pig out on carbs at your CN. Find the mistake...edit: Mikehr, did you even read The Carb Nite Solution?
t0x: I'm really curious to know which enzymes those are 😀 Seriously, if you have any info on the science, I'd love to be able to do some research
Ok lets try looking at it another way if it takes 4 days ULC to turn off those “enzymes” (I would also like to see this science) how does CBL work? CBL SA and DB you are only ULC for a matter of hours each day but there is guys like Cory, IBOB, Lumberjacked and many others who are backloading upwards of 350g of carbs each night with with little or no fat gain.
CBL and CNS are totally different! Don't confuse them.CNS needs 4-5 days ULC for the carbs to not be stored as fat. If it's not all stored as glycogen it will be burned off, literally, because the body can't get into fat-storing mode for some reason.CBL needs the muscles to be primed to take in all of that glucose. And yes, the muscles have to take it ALL in or it will be stored as fat.
hmm now I am both confused and interested lol Im not saying your wrong just questioning you out of interest so please dont be offended. What about people who are doing modified CNs with one midweek backload and one CN like what COry was doing? he was doing a wednesday backload then a saturday CN as I recall and seeing no ill results? Would the 4-5 days be cut a lot shorter if your training was more intense/more frequent? ie if someone was training twice in those 5 days or 5 times in those 5 days wouldn't the person who trained more be able to get away with just two ULC days?
t0x: I'm really curious to know which enzymes those are 😀 Seriously, if you have any info on the science, I'd love to be able to do some research
I remember looking at some of the research on this at one point, there was a bunch of rat studies that focused on FAS (fatty acid synthase). The tl;dr from my memory (i.e may be somewhat inaccurate): if rats fasted completely for a few days, FAS declined, and when refeeding with sugar, it came back at levels even greater than before. But simply eating fat (specifically PUFA?) also suppressed FAS. No-carb-rats had decreased FAS, while only a miniscule amount (10%) of sugar was enough to screw up the downregulation.CN has the references under "I" on p 369.
Cool, thanks MTI don't believe Cory's losing as much fat now he's off standard CNS
As MT already said these enzymes are called “fatty acid synthase” (FAS). @ Mikehr: Your body has no switch, meaning possible states of only 0 and 1. Being ULC the levels of FAS fade away reaching almost non-existing levels after 4 days. So refeeding after 2 days should do less harm than after 1 day..Don't confuse CBL and CNS. CNS manipulates your endocrine system while CBL works at a biomolecular level. Furthermore you can exploit the advantages of both diets by lighter refeeding every 3 or so days - but this should require some experimentation and further adaption...
Don't have much to add. Just want to say this is a good thread. I'll have to read CNS. The downregulation of FAS is very interesting.
Thanks for sharing the plan Cory! I think this would work better for me than CBL SA. Would like to try it in about 90 days time 🙂 Just one thing: Getting away with binging on CN requires that your glycogen stores are wiped out and that your hormones are in that special state where they're not up to storing carbs as fat. So I'm guessing that *could* be an issue, especially if you don't train all out before the CN.Another thing is some people (not me, but some people) can't take dextrose straight like that in their shake. And another thing about taking dextrose straight regularly is that there's a theroy that it might wreck gut bacteria, which can result in mal-absorption problems later on.Just my 2c 🙂
Welcome. 😉Actually, you were in mind when I was originally posting. I figure this would allow you to climb a little harder on CNS.Yeah, everyone is different. Something like this would work well (conceivably) for a hard-training athlete, but probably not so well for the Ave. Joe just doing cardio, a little weights or nothing at all, trying to burn some fat.This diet, as I see it, is something between a standard CNS and CBL SA... even moreso than my Mod-CNS setup was.CoryWanted to add: People lose fat on CBL SA, and this is held back a bit from that. There isn't a nightly back-load, rather just PWO shake carbs (when you're body is like a sponge).
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