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Hey ALL wise & experienced CBL & CNS'ers,Question: What success have people here have with getting below 10% whilst incorporating weight training, Mauy thai & BJJ into their training schedule?-- Aaanndd what day to day indicators should we be looking for to tell us that im reducing bodyfat?If your just reading this post but your also having issues trying to lean up & train MMA, please put down a comment "Plus 1" should suffice. Kiefer once said that we all need to ether make our training fit around our eating or change our eating to fit the needs of our training.. so good news for those of us who do train MMA & strength train, based on the podcasts & books pushed out by Kiefer we shouldnt have to change up our training scheduled. Here is my training schedule for those who want to try answering this extremely frustrating questionMy training schedule: (Note: I use the Shockwave APP on iphone)Sunday: Rest DayMonday: 7pm Shockwave Leg sessionTuesday: 6pm 1-2 hour Mauy Thai then BJJ sessionWednesday: 7pm Shockwave Chest & Back sessionThursday: 6pm 1-2 hour Mauy Thai then BJJ sessionFriday: 6pm Sparing sessionSaturday: 6pm Shockwave Shoulders & ArmsNutrition looks like this:Low Carb days7-8am: Long black coffee with organic grass fed butter (aka Dave Asprey's Bulletproof coffee)12:30pm: 100g grass fed steak with a table spoon of MCT oil2:30-3pm: 100g grass fed steak with a table spoon of MCT oil6-7pm: Pre work out - BCAA's + Creatine + MCT oil7-8-9pm: Post workout - BCAA's + Creatine + 100% Hydrolise whey protein shake.9-10pm: Steak & Broccoli or burger pizza or bacon & 3 eggsCarb Back Loading Days(Wednesday & Saturdays: The same as normal low carb days until post workout)Post workout: BCAA's + 20-30grams of vitargo + Creatine + 100% Hydrolise whey protein shake8-10pm Small pack of skittles, sometime pizza, gluten free chips all of that good stuff.
Just to bump this conversation… Kiefer mentions in CNS that with long duration cardio you can get some muscle wastage so im pretty sure cortisol levels are definately a factor here.
i haven't read this but maybe you can get someone to send it to you and see how it works for you http://athlete.io/forum/index.php?topic=8956.0its his plan for high volume training like crossfit and marine/army type workouts.. may work well for your type of workouts. I haven't actually gotten the PDF yet though to look through itvideo is here but the actual information and plan is on the PDF you need ot get someone to send youhttp://www.metacafe.com/watch/9622554/crossfit_diet_guide_to_results_with_carb_backloading/
Cheers mate, have posted a comment to get that pdf sent to me as well… Noticed that both those links dont work. PDF is gone and the video is maked as private.. Might be a country issues or something..
So the great team at Athlete.io sent me the Crossfit Diet pdf… Below is pretty much the main chunks of the plan:"""The DietSo what I did was build a stock CBL template to start and waited to find the weak points. He almost diedthe first week. I bet it’s the only time in history that my name was spoken in vain more than any deity inhistory, but he pushed through. By Week 2, I had a pretty solid plan laid out:SundayThis was his “rest” day, with only a morning session of HIIT. The idea was simple. Only stimulants pretraining (400mg of caffeine and 1mg of nicotine) and spike insulin levels immediately post with CaseinHydrolysate, Whey Isolate and leucine.Starting about an hour after that ended, the only goal I set for him was to eat whatever he wanted, sanscarbs. Don’t worry about fat to protein ratios, per se, but eat plenty of fatty meats. I also had him add 20grams of whey isolate after each meal…not before. His last no‐carb meal was at 4 pm…maybe.By 7 he gauged how he felt. Still depleted and crappy: add one carb‐up meal, don’t worry about the fat.He took this as a green light to eat pizza and ice cream. If he felt good, however, then it was no carbs forthe rest of the night. (I know what you’re thinking, he had a big training session on Monday, so wherewere the carbs? I’ll explain when we get to Saturday.)MondayHis 8am training on Monday consisted of a lot of dead lifting. So it started the same as with the SundayHIIT: stimulants, fluids and no food and ended the same way since it was only an hour long session,except that I doubled his whey isolate intake (so 60 grams total post training).That night was a different story. Four hours of hell starting at 5pm. He did, luckily, have a lot of recoverybetween work bouts, but it still drained him pretty intensely. That’s why the block’s in red. After the firsthour of training, he loaded up a shake with 400 grams of carbs from dextrose and 40 grams of wheyisolate and drank it through the remainder of his training. After training he had another 50 grams ofcarbs plus another 40 grams of protein. After that, it was a free‐for‐all for one more meal before bed,low‐fat; he had a big glycogen‐depleting session the next day right in the middle of training.TuesdayWe went with eggs—a lot of eggs— fried in butter and coconut oil for his first meal or two. During hisnoon training session, he actually when completely no‐carb and just downed about 60 grams of leucineand whey isolate after the session. From then on, it was fat and protein until his “power training”session (as he called it) at 9, which consisted of a couple PSR sets of the body part for that day, nevergoing past a Level 2. After that, he at some carbs, but went easy. We settled only about 25 grams.WednesdayThis was is pure endurance day. We purposely made this a low carb day to force his body to stay inaerobic training territory longer. Without carbs, you’re not going to last long in a glycolytic state duringthe Sprint‐Endurance‐Training‐Intervals (SETI). This paid dividends. We did, however, add in the sametype of post‐HIIT shake as on Sunday morning.In the evening, after his “power training”, we still kept his carb intake low, at the 50 gram level.ThursdayFor 5th day of the week, his day started just like the others, but we found that ingesting a small amountof carbs after his morning session (about 30 grams) enhanced recovery and performance. So he added inthe official morning carb of CBL: a brown‐spotted banana. The rest of the day was low carb until his finaltraining session.For this, after the first hour, he began his intra‐training nutrition of carbs and fast‐absorbing proteins.That night, he killed it with food.FridayThe next morning, we had to say “to hell with carb back‐loading, let’s front‐load,” and his intra‐trainingnutrition was identical to Monday night, except no carbs in the post workout: protein and leucine only.A couple of hours later start no‐carb which lasted through the evening.SaturdayHis morning started identical to Sunday, but we added a power session at 3 pm and then, for the rest ofthe night, he hate to his heart’s content. That doesn’t mean he always gorged, he just ate as much as hefelt like at each meal and didn’t worry about much other than making sure the carb count was high. Thiswas a classic Carb Nite, with a pre‐training primer to help partition the nutrients."""I gota say this made no sense to me, wouldnt the carb refil in the morning take him out of ketosis?Does anyone have an experience following this kind of diet and did they tweek it in anyway?
Eating the carbs early I think makes sense. BJJ is extremely taxing on pretty so many muscles and is cardio intense. Need those carbs. Who are you with with BJJ btw? I'm with 10thP under 300 yo!
Is that because its always right after a workout? I thought the idea was to always backload at night. Never heard of 10thP under 300… I spend more time doing Mauy thai but otherwise its Roots BJJ http://www.brazilianjiujitsu.com.au/home.aspx
10th Planet Jiu Jitsu, Eddie Bravo's school. Denny “300” was the first Black Belt under him, my bad I have a nasty habit of using a lot of short. If I'm not mistaken I think the same logic applies to cutting down reorientation time since at 65%(?) and above your body burns carbs exclusively and BJJ( Training like that in general) usually keeps your heart rate waaay up since it's so damn hard.
Just to bump this conversation... Kiefer mentions in CNS that with long duration cardio you can get some muscle wastage so im pretty sure cortisol levels are definately a factor here.
agreed. especially, if you're delaying eating in the morning (as with a CBL protocol), cortisol can definitely be an issue.
I am a boxer and I train in powerlifting style 4 times a week on top of my daily training which goes from 90 minutes to three hours, and let me tell ya, it's not gonna work without a lot of carbs. I used to think I was doing ok on a CKD and using refeeds to keep my lifts progressing, but it's incredibly stressful on your body. I would say keep fats relatively low and slam carbs. You also need some kind of peri workout nutrition, in my case intra otherwise you will hit the wall much faster and induce more stress.It's difficult because very few MMA artists or boxers outside of pros have a serious strength program. For example you will not find too many guys in my weight class who can deadlift over 500 or even 400 pounds because most people are either scared of weights or don't want to put up with the pain/fatigue associated to boxing when you are sore pretty much all the time. It's very rewarding once you reap the fruits of concurrent training, but it takes time to adapt to the work load and the road is a rough one. Plus you have to put up with people who are gonna tell you it is a terrible idea, especially coaches.
I forgot to address the main topic here which is fat loss..I personally don't believe in focusing on fat loss and performance at the same time if you are shooting to improve muscle mass and strength along the way, because it's definitely harder to drop body fat when you are training all the time as you need a lot of carbs every day and unless you are already lean, it will make it hard to tighten up quickly. What happens though, if you are patient, is over time you will build more muscle and improve your work capacity so that you will tighten up almost by accident, but it is not the fastest or more efficient way to get there. Again, not the best idea for most folks unless you have a lot of experience with training and dieting and/or have good insulin sensitivity. You can't just learn a new sport, lose fat, build muscle and feel great when you are trying to achieve everything at the same time. Your body will hate you. If you are a bit of a masochist though, go for it. If anyone has more questions about that topic feel free to PM me.
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