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Hello all, I'm new here! I posted this last night in the “Official Q & A” I think (I'm not very techie, nor familiar with this sites various specs yet 😉I've been researching carb back-loading lately & trying to determine if this protocol will work for me. There are so many diets out there & I've tried a lot of them!. No doubt this system works for those who follow it to the letter, but that is where I find most diets have failure built right into them. In order for a diet to work it has to fit or be customizable to one's lifestyle. Having most recently purchased & had to get a refund for Tom Venuto's "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle", primarily because I needed some feedback about how to apply the information to my unique situation & after two weeks, 4 attempts at contact & no response even to say "We don't offer coaching or consultations." or acknowledge me in any way, I determined that their lack of customer service & lack of information addressing my specifics signaled that I would not benefit by wasting any more time with them. So I'm glad this forum is here to hopefully get me started on the right foot. I intend to buy the book once I feel confident it will work for me, but I have a shelf full of books I have to find time to read & I would not want to let that stop me from achieving my fitness goals. I am trying to break a several month long plateau - after having finally broke a previous year or more long plateau several months ago, I still find myself needing assistance. I hope that assistance can be found here...but after everything I've tried & probably stuck with too long, I am at my wit's end, afraid I'll screw things up further & I'm not sure I haven't exhausted my resources of who's even qualified to advise me.At the end of chapter 12 in Tom Venuto's "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle", I read this:"So that’s it! I’ve absolutely emptied out my brain and revealed my most megaeffectivesecrets to maximum fat loss. These are some very powerful techniques, butremember; carbohydrate cutting taken to the extreme will do more harm than good.Never cut your carbohydrates out completely and never stay on low carbohydrates for along period of time. It's usually not wise to go to extremes in anything and this is as truefor dieting as with anything else in life: Moderation is the key."Unfortunately for me, I've been on an extremely low-carb diet (10 grams or less per day) for about 6 months now...well, up until 2 weeks ago when I just got so fed up with nothing working that I began incorporating carbs again. This was recommended to me by a neuro-endochrinologist I consulted with for reasons that included lethargy/low energy, difficulty with mental focus & clarity, mood swings, depression, PMS symptoms that seemed to keep me functioning at half capacity more than half the time & inability to lose weight or get fit no matter what effort I put in. He determined I had a hormonal imbalance. He put me on this diet & made that determination based on my inability to achieve or stay in ketosis even after two weeks of less than 10g carbs, & the fact that my body, no matter how restrictive my calories or carbs nor how hard I workout (often 3+ hours a day!), is extremely resistant to shedding fat. He also prescribed a nasal spray that I take 3 times a day. Between the diet change & the prescription nasal spray, I have to admit, the other symptoms are mostly all but a bad memory (that I suffered with most, if not all, of my adult life!) - which I'm incredibly grateful to be rid of! ...but this stubborn fat/fitness piece is still just such a thorn in my side!So here I am again, in no way overweight or out of shape but still struggling for years on end to reach my fitness goals & full fitness potential. Upon asking this doctor what further measures I can take he just keeps telling me to cut calories further (I got all the way down to 650 a day!), increase exercise (as I said, it already takes the time of a part-time job, not to mention the lack of energy I have for much else!), & keep carbs below 10 grams a day - all of which I've managed to do almost religiously, save for a handful of special occasions over the past 6 months, getting right back on track within a span of a day or 3 each time - it has not been easy!. After researching exhaustively & trying to change things up with carb & calorie cycling, changing up my workouts, etc, now it seems I'm finding out too late that I've been on this strict protocol for too long & I'm hoping to find advise & encouragement on how to reverse the damage I may have done to my metabolism & help me get my body into the fat-burning mode I know it should be in.None of what I've read recently, besides what I've read about "Carb Back-Loading" is particularly new to me, I am trained in nutrition, but none of my knowledge of how things are supposed to work has had much effect on me in the past. Though since carb back-loading does take hormones into account, I have high hopes it holds some results for me that nothing else sustainably has. I also tend to be more hungry in the evening than in the morning naturally (my mornings are usually too busy to eat anyway!), so this part of the program especially appeals to me. One especially troubling piece of advice I've come across with low-carbing & other protocols is to eat every 3 hours. This is more often than not very unrealistic, although I do try & have got a lot better at it...I set alarms, I have food prepared & ready, I have even interrupted workouts to eat something at that 3 hour mark - though I can't figure out if this is recommended, but I'm finding it always a challenge to keep up with without feeling like a slave to it. Part of the problem is that I'm finding very few things to eat that are the right balance of protein/fat/carbs that are within the right calorie range for one of 5 meals without putting me over calories for the day. The other problem is that I do Kundalini Yoga daily. It is a very vigorous style of yoga & should be done on an empty stomach or at least 3 hours after eating...this leaves no room to eat every 3 hours. I do try to do my yoga practice first thing upon waking at 5am, but there are days that I fall short of that, oversleep or am too tired to jump right into it fresh out of bed, & if I have appointments to keep, like I usually do, it can potentially wreak havoc on the whole day. I am looking for the best way around this, but it's proving quite a conundrum...but I digress.I'm happy to provide any further details you may need to advise me properly. I also would like to clarify that I have already come a long way & I'm proud & pleased to currently be in the best shape of my life. Several years ago I weighed at least 60 lbs more & was probably more like 40% or more body fat, not to mention the debilitating depression I struggled with daily. However, I've been on this health & fitness journey for quite a while now & I enjoy working out hard, taking exquisite care of myself & I am very dedicated & have aspirations of doing fitness modelling if only I could get a bit leaner (I'm currently 5' 2", 117 lbs, & 20% body fat but would like to be somewhere closer to 107 lbs & 12% body fat - I will enjoy adding it back if I think I look too thin ;-).The things about the program that concern me & have me wondering how I can customize it to my lifestyle to get results follow:Does the book have an index that would allow me to skip right to the questions that most concern me so I don't have to waste mine & y'all's time posting here? 😉My goal is to get lean & preserve muscle...I am trying to change body composition but I do not want to get huge like She-Hulk, which tends to happen whenever I lift heavy! So I do circuit training workouts using light weights & high reps. My workouts are in the morning because once my day takes off they might not get done, but I can be disciplined about working out in the morning so that's when I do it so I'm sure it gets done...with the few adjustments I've read about (Julia Ladewski interview, for example), will carb back-loading still work for me, to get me lean? ....My workout routine usually consists of an hour to 75 minutes of vigorous, challenging Kundalini yoga upon waking at 5AM, followed by a brief half hour break to take supplements, go to the bathroom, feed pets, etc...then 5-6 days a week I do 60-90 minutes of light weight/high rep circuits that get my heart rate up & leave me feeling thoroughly sweaty, challenged & well-worked. Two days a week I do a 45-minute spin class, & pretty much daily, weather permitting, I go for a walk or run later in the day, around 6pm or so. I know there are ways to modify for early morning workouts & I'll be happy to learn further advice on how to customize toward that end, but it seems most people who use this system want to get huge...since that's not me, is carb back-loading consistent with my goals & will it get me the results I want if I don't lift heavy? Is there a best way to customize for that?I have been working that hard since Thanksgiving & frankly, I'm exhausted, so I've been taking a break for the past few days because I've got spasms in my scapula & feel I'm risking overtraining. I'm going to take a few more days, maybe just do some light cardio & yoga, then switch up the routine & do a P90X/Insanity hybrid rotation in place of my circuit for a couple of months, still using higher rep/lighter weight because I HATE looking like the Michelin Man when I'm just a dainty 5' 2" woman ...any suggestions or modifications to recommend about this plan?Secondly, what if I like cardio? ...which, I kinda do. I don't want to be a slave to it, but nothing clears my head like a run on the beach sometimes. Is cardio recommended to do early morning on an empty stomach prior to my circuit workout? ...how many hours later should I go for that optional run (or swim, now that warm weather is on it's way)?What formula do y'all use to determine how many calories/fat/carbs & protein grams to aim for each day (low end & high end if cycling them?) - is cycling suggested in this system?How important is the prep phase for someone like me who has been extremely low carb for an extended period of time (albeit with a recent 2-week hiatus)? I've heard it resets something so the diet will be effective & have also heard it is just to help you determine how many carbs a day...but I'already used to doing 10 or less for the whole day, a half day at 10 will be a breeze...30 a day will be a luxury! Is there a way to use what I've already learned doing low carb to skip the prep phase & get right into results?I don't like coffee...I don't mean to insult anyone here, but I find it smells good, tastes bad & leaves one's breath smelling like they ate a pile of shit. I also don't love the jittery, coked-up feeling...the last time I drank a cup of coffee was a few years ago at my Mom's house & promptly folded 8 loads of her laundry because I could not relax. I don't enjoy the sense of being chased by a saber-toothed tiger & so I don't like the caffeine high. Is there a way around this, or do I just have to get over it & get used to it? Can a prescription diet pill such as Ionomin or Phentermine, which I've been on in the past, be a viable substitute?Thank you sooo, sooo much to those of you who have managed to read through my admittedly long post! I really just want to spare myself from going down yet another wrong road only to have to find my way back again...& I really am realistically too swamped to read through a 300 page book in less than a few months & with important photo shoots coming up & summer around the corner, I'd really love to enjoy better results a lot quicker. Thanks so much! I can't wait to hear your feedback!All the best to you!
Your post is quite long, and it's hard to see specific questions, but I think I can answer a couple right off the bat.Training: Carb back-loading generally depends on one mechanism to work; non-insulin mediated tGLUT translocation. This way of getting your cells to take up glucose without insulin relies on heavy muscle contractions.What makes carb back-loading work is lifting heavy stuff. P90X or similar circuit-type workouts generally don't cut it..Cardio: Have you read Kiefers articles on cardio? http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/women-running-into-trouble/Heavy resistance training and/or HIIT seems to be the way to go!
Ok I did not read your entire post because it was too long. But welcome to the forum. I don' think you want to do Carb Backloading. You seem more concerned with losing fat. Carb Nite I think is what you are looking for. Carb Backloading is people who want to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. If you do Carb Backloading you won't lose as much fat. Carb Nite you go ultra-low carb for 6 of the 7 days of the week. Under 30 g of usable carbs. On the 7th day of the week you go on a six hour binge of high glycemic carbs. When you go low carb for more than this period of time, as you found out, you start to feel like crap. The Carb Nite reignites your fat burning hormones. As an engineer, I am very skeptical of everything and I want scientific proof. I review scientific documents for a living and I can say the amount of research Kiefer (the author of Carb Nite and Carb Backloading) did is astounding. The science is solid.I think the main problem with your lifestyle is your exercise. You exercise too much and do too much cardio. This is putting a massive amount of stress on your body. Under Carb Nite or Carb Backloading you won't do any steady state cardio. Maybe one HIIT workout which should only be 20 minutes. You will also want to lift heavy. You don't turn into the she-hulk. As a bodybuilder I find it insulting you think getting big is that easy. Check out Julia Ladewski (she's on this website). She is a competitive power-lifter and she doesn't have a massive physique. You don't have to completely annihilate your muscles just a decent stimulus. For questions about a female appropriate workout ask Naomi (the admin), she also lifts heavy.For more info why your current exercise program is wrong I highly reccomend this article by Kiefer: http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/women-running-into-trouble/
I did read your whole post and have to agree with ibobland08 and Draugluir.Carb Nite Solution sounds more up your alley. Plus you are doing way too much. I know someone who is doing the same thing. It is burning the candle at both ends. Doesnt seem worth it if you cant enjoy yourself at all. Switch to some heavy lifting. Your body wont magically change overnight. As ibobland08 said it is quite annoying when people think they can accidently do what we are trying to do on purpose.I highly suggest checking out Julia Ladewski. She powerlifts in the lower weight classes(123 I believe) and looks very much like a woman. Lifting a little bit of heavy weight wont turn you into any kind of hulk.
I read the whole post as well, but not sure I agree that carb-nite would be the best. My main reasoning for this (and I could be completely off base) is:1) You are probably no where near as muscular as you think you are and probably need to add some quality mass to get the appearance and body fat you are looking for.Please make the investment in the book and read the ENTIRE thing. It has valuable information about how CBL works and it's important to be informed (in my opinion at least).Also, buy one or both of Starting Strength (http://aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?crn=199&rn=413&action=show_detail) and 5/3/1 (http://store.jimwendler.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1477). They both contain invaluable information (as well as programs) in regards to strength training and are under $40 each. Strength, despite what you have likely been told, is essentialy to building a quality physique.Any more questions I would be more than happy to help.
I read the whole post as well, but not sure I agree that carb-nite would be the best. My main reasoning for this (and I could be completely off base) is:1) You are probably no where near as muscular as you think you are and probably need to add some quality mass to get the appearance and body fat you are looking for.Please make the investment in the book and read the ENTIRE thing. It has valuable information about how CBL works and it's important to be informed (in my opinion at least).Also, buy one or both of Starting Strength (http://aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?crn=199&rn=413&action=show_detail) and 5/3/1 (http://store.jimwendler.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1477). They both contain invaluable information (as well as programs) in regards to strength training and are under $40 each. Strength, despite what you have likely been told, is essentialy to building a quality physique.Any more questions I would be more than happy to help.
I thought CBL was not quite female friendly because they dont have as much muscle mass.With that said great advice on those books.
I want to add something. We do not count calories here. We do count carbs and to extent protein and fat. But here are other Kiefer articles to check out:http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/nutrition/logic-does-not-apply-part-1-meal-frequency/http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/nutrition/logic-does-not-apply-part-2-breakfast/http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/nutrition/logic-does-not-apply-iii-a-calorie-is-a-calorie/
Hey girl! Welcome. I am going to read your whole post later (phew, it's a lot!) 🙂 but i will say that extended low carb will not work. sounds like you've been doing it too long with no refeed days. that's why carb nite works (with 6-8 hours of refeeding) and carb back loading as well… read the books! i'll be back later to read more!
Also, not a big deal, but try not to post the same thing in two places. If you think it'll get more attention in a different sub forum, you can just ask a moderator to move the thread for you.
I read the whole post as well, but not sure I agree that carb-nite would be the best. My main reasoning for this (and I could be completely off base) is:1) You are probably no where near as muscular as you think you are and probably need to add some quality mass to get the appearance and body fat you are looking for.Please make the investment in the book and read the ENTIRE thing. It has valuable information about how CBL works and it's important to be informed (in my opinion at least).Also, buy one or both of Starting Strength (http://aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?crn=199&rn=413&action=show_detail) and 5/3/1 (http://store.jimwendler.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1477). They both contain invaluable information (as well as programs) in regards to strength training and are under $40 each. Strength, despite what you have likely been told, is essentialy to building a quality physique.Any more questions I would be more than happy to help.
I thought CBL was not quite female friendly because they dont have as much muscle mass.With that said great advice on those books.
I think CBL can still work for females, but they have to be more careful with their back-loads just like the lighter guys on here (myself included). In other words, they can't crush an entire pizza and a whole host of other things and expect results. Julia or Naomi would definitely have more insight on that though.
Thank you all so much for your input! I really appreciate it! I apologize, I know my post was long, (-but not 300 pages long! ;)) - it was just my effort to be thorough. Thank you for reading as much as time & patience would allow & big round of applause for those of you who read the whole thing! Really, thank you 😉And I sincerely apologize for insulting anyone, however, I also find it insulting when my experience is dismissed because it doesn't fit with what's expected to happen. I'm telling you, every time I have taken the advice of anyone who assured me I would not get big muscles by lifting heavy I regretted it - SHE-HULK! Granted, the bulk I got was probably nothing for a man aiming to get Arnold big, but for a petite 5' 2", small-framed female, it was not up to my own personal aesthetic - for me. Perhaps I have genes for it that, as a girly girl, I'd rather not have or perhaps the amount of fat on top of the muscles made me look all the more Michelin Man'd out, but like it or not, that's what happens to me. I'm not thrilled that certain people can maintain a lean, sculpted body eating whatever they want & with minimal exercise, but I'm not going to be insulted or assume they can't be telling the truth about their effort & results. I apologize again, wholeheartedly if something you want & work hard for comes easily to someone who doesn't appreciate it, I'd gladly trade with you if I could 😉Through years worth of trial & error, lifting heavy & getting discouraged & giving up, then trying again, what I've found works best to give me my desired results is to keep weights to 3-5 lbs & do 2 or 3 sets of 16-30, doing everything at a fast enough pace to keep my heart rate fairly high in a circuit style...Since learning that this is what my body responds best to I've tried going to 8 & 10 lbs for areas like my chest & shoulders, where I think a little fuller look is okay, but it tends to bulk up my biceps & triceps too much...funny thing is that I don't really struggle with the heavy weights. I am strong...I can't do a full pull-up or chin-up (though I haven't tried in a while), but I can do at least 20-25 fast-paced boy-style push-ups (on toes) - I can remember when I couldn't even do 1!.I do like HIIT too! I enjoy cardio, it clears my head...I find it therapeutic so I'd rather not give it up altogether. Though I do admit I may be overtraining...Again it was my effort to be thorough, achieve my goal & move on to maintenance & other things.In any case, I do appreciate the science & research that's gone into this, but it's also been my experience that a lot of things with valid science behind them don't necessarily function the same for everyone in the real world, especially when it comes to fitness & nutrition...we are all individuals after all. I look forward to reading the articles suggested before investing more time & money in another system that may not be the right match for me.I initially was not counting calories either, but when I was not dropping fat, that became the next piece of advice my consulting neuro-endochrinologist gave me...basically to create a calorie deficit, but keeping track with "Lose It" on my phone (& before that Fitday.com - I'm very disciplined about keeping track of everything I eat! ...for years on end now), I had a huge deficit & still no fat-loss...which according to him also apparently defies science & he all but called me a liar...whatever. If he can't help me, I can move on.I'm just not sure what to try anymore, & eating is something that must be done everyday...it's not like I can put it on the back-burner until I figure it out. And in the meantime I could be undoing all my hard work & going in the totally opposite direction of my goals if I get it wrong. I've tried a lot of different things, but can't seem to push through this plateau.
Hey girl! Welcome. I am going to read your whole post later (phew, it's a lot!) 🙂 but i will say that extended low carb will not work. sounds like you've been doing it too long with no refeed days. that's why carb nite works (with 6-8 hours of refeeding) and carb back loading as well... read the books! i'll be back later to read more!
...Thank you, I look forward to hearing a woman's perspective on this...perhaps there are hormonal fluctuations hindering me that men just don't have to take into consideration? Part of what appealed to me about carb back-loading was that the effect food, & carbs in particular, have on hormones has been taken into consderation. But perhaps Kiefer was designing this for himself & did not have to consider the different effect it could have on some women...I'd consider being his guinea-pig if he wants to test some of this out on a specials needs sort of tough case. 😀
Also, not a big deal, but try not to post the same thing in two places. If you think it'll get more attention in a different sub forum, you can just ask a moderator to move the thread for you.
...Sorry, I just wasn't sure where to post so I covered all bases 😉 ...now I know.
I read the whole post as well, but not sure I agree that carb-nite would be the best. My main reasoning for this (and I could be completely off base) is:1) You are probably no where near as muscular as you think you are and probably need to add some quality mass to get the appearance and body fat you are looking for.Please make the investment in the book and read the ENTIRE thing. It has valuable information about how CBL works and it's important to be informed (in my opinion at least).Also, buy one or both of Starting Strength (http://aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?crn=199&rn=413&action=show_detail) and 5/3/1 (http://store.jimwendler.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1477). They both contain invaluable information (as well as programs) in regards to strength training and are under $40 each. Strength, despite what you have likely been told, is essentialy to building a quality physique.Any more questions I would be more than happy to help.
I thought CBL was not quite female friendly because they dont have as much muscle mass.With that said great advice on those books.
I think CBL can still work for females, but they have to be more careful with their back-loads just like the lighter guys on here (myself included). In other words, they can't crush an entire pizza and a whole host of other things and expect results. Julia or Naomi would definitely have more insight on that though.
..I CAN TOTALLY crush an entire pizza & layer cake given the opportunity too! This is another reason I keep track of calories...I don't think when my doctor told me I could eat as much bacon as I like that he took into account just how much bacon that might be! ;D So I have definitely reigned it in since getting the hang of low-carb...that was really the only thing not so enjoyable about low-carbing for so long, I don't look forward to the rest of my life with no birthday cake...the rest was actually not so bad once I got used to it. I do look forward to eating greens more regularly again though - I actually used to be vegan & put on a ton of weight in my late teens eating anything that didn't have parents. Most people imagine vegans as thin, but it had the opposite effect on me.Thanks again! I look forward to learning more here.All the Best, Aurora
Do you write books for a living, like an author? 😛I want to read your posts, their just too long haha!
(((Quote from: julialadewski on Today at 11:05:58 amHey girl! Welcome. I am going to read your whole post later (phew, it's a lot!) but i will say that extended low carb will not work. sounds like you've been doing it too long with no refeed days. that's why carb nite works (with 6-8 hours of refeeding) and carb back loading as well... read the books! i'll be back later to read more!...Thank you, I look forward to hearing a woman's perspective on this...perhaps there are hormonal fluctuations hindering me that men just don't have to take into consideration? Part of what appealed to me about carb back-loading was that the effect food, & carbs in particular, have on hormones has been taken into consderation. But perhaps Kiefer was designing this for himself & did not have to consider the different effect it could have on some women...I'd consider being his guinea-pig if he wants to test some of this out on a specials needs sort of tough case. )))Ok, i still haven't read your whole post (either of them).... 🙂 but i will. off the top of my head (i might think differently after i read) is that if you're not going to lift heavy, then maybe carb night is more up your alley. CBL is designed to GAIN MUSCLE and LOSE FAT. CNS is designed to STRIP FAT while maintaining muscle... just a thought that if you're not trying to necessarily gain muscle, CBL might not be the best option. carbs = growth. and backloading 4-7 times per week might not be what you want to do. and yes, i can crush a pizza too, but not if i want to keep my 6 pack....... that having been said.....Keep your eyes peeled. There will be some stuff coming up that will involve CBL FOR WOMEN. i promise you that.
Yay!!! Thank you, sister! Meantime I will learn Carb Nite! Again, I am available, disciplined & keep quite detailed records, if an independent test study participant is sought. 😉
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